To think that the law in US (Alabama) is now insane

[Breathlessness]

A pregnant woman got into a fight and was shot in the stomach. She lost the child. She’s now being held in jail on manslaughter charges because her fetus died when she was shot and the authorities have decided that the shooter shot her ‘in self defence.’

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/27/alabama-woman-charged-unborn-babys-death-shot-stomach/

From the article

‘In other cases pregnant women have been charged for drug use or a car accident that resulted in the death of a foetus.’

It's the deep south. Foetuses are more important than anything else. Certainly more important that actual grown women. No one or nothing can harm a foetus...up until it's born and turns out to be gay.

From the US, can confirm, this is insane. My state is outraged (Washington)

It’s amazing to me that using a gun against an unarmed person is fine but being shot leaves you open to manslaughter charges.

It’s really worrying that these kind of prosecutions are happening in the US. I’ve only heard of this kind of thing in certain Central and South American countries where all abortion is illegal and women find themselves having to prove they miscarried naturally.

Soon they’ll be trying to prosecute women who have a period instead of using that egg to create a baby.

I like the replies on here 😂

I don't trust the US but I don't trust the Torygraph either. More info needed for me before I feel able to comment.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/27/alabama-pregnant-woman-shot-manslaughter-charge-marshae-jones

Guardian link

She was shot in the abdomen 5 times and she’s in jail?

Blessed be the fruit (loops)

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/27/pregnant-woman-was-shot-stomach-she-was-indicted-her-babys-death/

Washington Post

The woman who actually did the shooting had charges dismissed, so the only prosecution arising from this incident is of the victim!

How repugnant. This is what trumps America has done. Why has shit like this ever even been contemplated?!
They are going backwards.

It’s bat shit crazy!!!!

It's completely insane.

Under his eye.

I was so outraged by this I very briefly had a mad moment of thinking I’d go and protest somehow somewhere (felt like hopping on a flight immediately). Absolutely shocking.

Disgusting.

I have friends from the southern states and every single one of them is outraged by all of this.

It's horrifying.

There is already a thread on this www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3623129-Alabama-woman-loses-unborn-child-after-being-shot-gets-arrested-shooter-goes-free. Alabama is in the dark ages with its draconian laws.

The person incarcerated is the one who started and continued the fight. She would also be the guilty party in the UK jurisdictions.

You are, both in US and here, permitted to defence yourself when attacked. Sometimes the defender inflicts injury on the attacker. That may or may not evr come to court, because if the self-defence is proportionate, that is a complete/sufficient defence. It is wrong to say the other person in this incident is an attacker, It was a defender.

There is an offence of child destruction in most of UK (not sure about Scotland) but it is very rarely used. I think it wouid be difficult/impossible to show that the attacker had intended to kill her own baby (as her attack was on someone else) so she wouldn't face a child destruction offence here. She wouid face jail for her assault on another person though.

farahilda all good points and we really don’t know key details. She would need to be reckless (in the supposed total absence of intent) as to whether her unborn child would be shot. Even if accepted that by initiating an attack where the victim was found to have acted in self defence (still astounded on facts as known that shooting in these circs was found to be self defence) I just can’t see how the state can establish that mens rea.
However huge caveat - we really don’t know facts - I’m hoping we don’t because I’m reading what is known it makes no sense at all. Hmmm

Yes his eyes on us. Appalling rescinding of human rights but sadly likely to spread under Trump. The far right, God fearing, ultra conservatives have had their opinions validated by their leader and women will inevitably be the ones that suffer.
The whole culture is changing both in the USA and here in U.K. Polarised wealth and the likes of Farage have given some very unpleasant people a much louder voice.

@Farahilda I get that the shooter is claiming self defence but 5 shots? To the stomach of a pregnant "attacker" sounds more than self defence.... she could surely have defended herself in another way?!

The foetus fetish is really weird though. Had the child been born, found a gun lying around at home and shot itself (this happens to a lot of American children each year) then they'd all be shrugging and claiming it was the will of God.

I think the law in the UK (Northern Ireland) isn't much to write home about.

I think it may be to force the issue of if a foetus has rights to the courts and eventually to the supreme court to challenge Roe v Wade.

I struggle to understand how shooting someone five times can possibly be proportionate self-defence. Do we know whether the mother was armed? On the face of it, if you don't want to be in a fight with someone you walk away - after all, a pregnant woman isn't likely to be too effective in chasing you.