To not want my child to be given an oracy grade by school!?

[RosaLappen]

She is quiet, that is her nature. It doesn't mean she can't express herself, it doesn't mean she's not following the lesson.
It's essentially a grade on her personality isn't it?

your child struggles with speaking in front of people, so she shouldn’t get a grade for it? Should children who struggle with maths not get a maths grade? Children who struggle with writing get no writing grade?

Speaking in retrospect here. My daughter is gifted in Maths and English. Did two degrees and got an MSc in maths and a degree in English Language.

However, she is painfully shy, which made the attainment of these educational certificates harder to attain. In retrospect, I wish her school had coached her, spotted her shyness in coming forward, and made oracy more of a 'thing'. Had it been more of a 'thing' she would have embraced it as yet another learning process, and been on board with the idea that it can be learned and is not just innate in one person but not in another.

She might have seen it as 'a skill to learn' rather than a skill she innately did not, and never could, have.

I think it's a good thing that care is being taken over children's oracy. If you get marked down then you need to be coached to improve. In a really supportive and careful way. But I would have welcomed the heads up that there was a need to boost her confidence in speaking up.

As an adult she has improved her confidence. Especially as she now has a well paid and responsible job and travels widely as a specialist in her area of knowledge.

But. She'd have got further, faster, if there had been some measure of oracy, and some help in that area from a much younger age. In school, preferably. Most of her confidence in speaking to a large group has been because she has been forced, through her job, to face it and do it. She's a bag of nerves an hour before it and just wants to run away. It would have helped a massive amount if she'd had an 'oracy class' at school. How to speak slowly and clearly and not panic.

I was schooled in the 60s. I never even heard of an Oracy class.
But it sounds like a good thing. It's an identified thing. Therefore, they are looking to improve it.

You don't have to do it for iGCSE English.

We don't bother. It's a faff & doesn't affect their grade - just an additional certificate. Taking part in international debating comps etc is more interesting.

Mine weren't in ever subject, no, but actually I would have loved it if they have been.
2 out of my 3 dc have gone through school with similar reports / feedback from all teachers across the board / all subjects / over many years letting us know that they were really engaged with the subjects / showed clear understanding / asked deep, thoughtful and probing questions / contributed really well in discussion / etc etc, but could not get across the same quality of work in a written exam / assessment / test / essay. Now, if every subject had an element of an 'oracy grade', then those pupils like my dc, could all have gone up a grade across the board.
The more you say, the more I'm liking the sound of this. Yup, even PE, where the same 2 dc are great motivators / team spirit contributors / talkers (an important element in most team games) but never going to be the most skilled or the fastest. It would have been great had more elements of the contributions made by different pupils were recognised.

Oracy is a separate part of the English curriculum here... used to be called speaking and listening. And it's required to be graded, and carries a heavier weighting in the overall level than reading or writing.
It's not a measure of shyness or his outgoing someone is.

Where are you OK? In Wales it's expected that pupils abilities in literacy and numeracy are reported on in every other subject's report, and it has been since the literacy and numeracy framework was brought in a few years ago. Not specifically just oracy though.

I am not in the UK but my DC got an oracy grade for every subject. I have no problem with it.

School kids need to contribute to class discussions, speak up, answer class questions etc it shows engagement with the class.

This is an interesting article on the benefits of it.

My primary school did oracy lessons in the early 2000s, it's not a new thing. We also had speaking exams for English and foreign languages in secondary school. I hated it, but it had to do it.

Are you in wales? Might be because of the cross-curricular literacy and numeracy frameworks that they’re including this for all sujects.

Not sure if this is the same thing but I clearly recall doing oral presentations at school and getting a mark for it so if it's similar to that then it is nothing new.

Think of it as them looking for areas where she can improve, at all stages of life we need to be able to communicate clearly and effectively, particularly in the work place.

I'd disagree (as a teacher) that it's about personality. Loving the sound of your own voice does not equal marks

That's true. Brief, well considered and quietly spoken equals marks.
Some children (and a lot of adults) appear to think that the louder they shout and the more words they use, the more import their message has to convince others.

But we all know that's not true. It takes us adults a long time to muster the confidence to say what we really think. I wish that, as a child in school, it had even been acknowledged that I had a voice.

The nearest thing to Oracy we had in infant school in the early 60s was in Assembly. A religious thing with the Lord's Prayer and a couple of Hymns. "Now stand up if you have some News for us" the Headteacher would say, just before we were allowed to stand up and stretch our cramped limbs and numb bottoms. (Probably the precursor to my own childrens' "show and tell" assemblies, with a similar scrutiny of the information gleaned.)

The news was maybe that Mum had gone away to visit an Auntie.
Or that Dad had sent them a postcard from wherever he was working. But, whatever a 5 year old tells you about their private and personal life, is always very telling to the teacher. That's what show and tell is designed for.

To encourage very young children to be confident in speaking out loud is hugely important. It is NOT a judgement on her personality.

OP. It's not important. It doesn't matter. She will develop and gain confidence. Some do it soon but some later. My daughter, like yours, was quiet. Maybe because she is not challenged by the lessons. She understands it all, so what's to say?

Some kids are noisy gobshites, and they're not keeping up academically and they're just used to living in a noisy and turbulent environment. Yours isn't. She's quiet and measured and that's really to your credit.

Take it with a pinch of salt. Encourage her to be more outspoken, but don't push her. Her Oracy mark will not follow her to University.
Really. Don't fret about it. Been there. Done that. Recycled the t-shirt.

Can’t comment in relation to school syllabus as I’m not from England. But oracy is definitely important. My step daughter is dyslexic and has quite poor pronunciation, this leads to a lot of spelling errors in her work. I think it’s very important that the school keeps track of both her oral and written work as they really have a lot of overlap. For what it’s worth she is an absolute chatter box too with a very loud voice.

We did when I was at prep school in the 80s - our final grade each term was based 50% on our exam, and the remaining 50% the criteria were something like: speaking and participation, listening, classwork, behaviour for each subject.

Although I can see why this would worry you a little, given that your DD is quiet, it’s actually quite a common idea in teaching circles that the quality of discussion in the classroom directly affects learning. The ability to argue, question, hypothesise, revise etc., in conversation with others, helps you learn.

As PP have asked, is this Wales?

If so, yes, all teachers are required to assist and develop literacy and numeracy. Not every school will break down into separate sections on a report, but they will mostly comment on the report.

There is oracy in GCSEs. It doesn’t count towards the final grade but you can’t pass GCSE English Language without passing the Spoken Language component. For this you have to speak audibly and articulately for 4/5 mins - without a script and answer questions afterwards for similar amount of time.

We don't have it on reports.
But I don't necessarily see the harm in it being graded.
It's not about being quiet, it's about contribution to the class as appropriate.

I'm sure that even in schools where the grade is not reported to parents, staff are still assessing oracy and passing the information to the next teacher. As others have said, once she moves onto higher education, she will be expected to be able to speak on a subject in many (most?) subjects. Ds had to give several presentations during g his time at university. He was also required to 'defend' his assertions in his final piece to a panel of experts in order to gain his science degree. Similarly, he was required to prepare and give presentations when it came to his postgraduate qualification.
I remember having to research and then present a short 'leaaon' when I was in junior school and I am almost 60, so it's definitely not a new thing.

So you have your answer OP. Some schools don't do oracy grades in every subject, others do. Pretty much all schools to oracy for some subjects.

OP my school had Oracy grades when I was in Juniors. I'm 33. Yabvvu.

I must say it's a new one on me, but I think it's a brilliant idea. I bet it would be useful for thinking about university courses, careers etc, and used alongside other abilities could help predict what someone is likely to succeed at.

To answer your question- yes. We receive this as part of the English grade every term.

She is quiet, that is her nature. It doesn't mean she can't express herself, it doesn't mean she's not following the lesson.

Being quiet, but still able to express herself will not give her a low oracy grade.

If she is being graded low for oracy, then this is an indication that she is not able to express her views articulately, and this is an area where she needs additional development.

It is not a grade for personality - that is irrelevant, many quiet people are very effective communicators. It is a grade based on her ability to communicate effectively.

No, our school doesn’t do this. I think I would like it. Dd2 is an excellent student but rarely speaks up because she doesn’t see any value in it, and has become quite anxious about public speaking (in primary she spoke up lots and was regularly called on to speak/narrate in assemblies). Dd1 doesn’t speak up so as not to draw attention or bullying. I think they would both do it if it was a graded expectation.