To not want my child to be given an oracy grade by school!?

[RosaLappen]

She is quiet, that is her nature. It doesn't mean she can't express herself, it doesn't mean she's not following the lesson.
It's essentially a grade on her personality isn't it?

I did an oral in my GCSEs about 15 years ago.

Also at work I see a lot of student transcripts and some of them do have an oral 'unit' in their English Language GCSEs. Its not just her school.

My Y10 dd did a speech yesterday - 8 mins apparently. Older dcs in 20s did one. I did Spoken English back in 1979. Nothing new. It's an important life skill.

Yes, YABveryU. Quite ridiculous in fact.

As others have said, do you think people should only be given grades for skills they are 'A' students in ?

Yes, all schools have been giving grades for "Speaking and Listening" from when they first started Nursery or Reception..... at that point the grades are 'Emerging' / 'Developing' / 'Secure' rather than A /B/ C or 1 /2/ 3, but it's been the case certainly for well over 20 years now.

Hearing so many adults who struggle to speak out to a group, I wish it had started 70 years ago to be honest. It is SUCH an important skill for life, let alone being needed for English language and MFL exams.

Not sure about schools but very common at university level. In my undergrad 10% of each unit mark was 'class contribution and presentation skills.'

I'd disagree (as a teacher) that it's about personality. Loving the sound of your own voice does not equal marks. Being able to verbalise your knowledge/ideas and explain things is important.

Op yes dd3s school gives this for GCSE DD3 is a quiet girl a introvert but fully able to do this when needed and got a good grade (in high end of her class) for this

it is not a personality grade

Every year group, every report, every subject.

Not OTT?

Oracy is an important skill, and helps develop written work - for example, we have kids who can't spell simple words, because they have never heard them spoken properly (they'd automatically write something along the lines of 'cos they'ind herd'um proply', for example).

We don't award GCSEs in other languages without assessing ability to speak the language and being able to hear how something is phrased, the rhythms, the consonant sounds, the stops, give a far greater understanding of rhythm, rhyme, pentameter, tone, punctuation, syntax, grammar and content; all essential for being able to write clearly, persuasively and creatively.

In addition, developing Oracy skills doesn't just give greater confidence, it affects the way people are perceived - for example, if you are interviewing a mumbling teenager with a strong accent and use of slang terminology as associated with Grime music that some will assume to be Gang Culture and one who speaks clearly and confidently, it's unlikely to be the first teenager who gets offered the job that requires speaking to clients. (Yes, I know there's an element of racism in that decision, but the same applies for any strong regional accent)

It also encourages attention to detail and benefits other subjects such as Music.

I grew up with a very strong local accent. However, as I read more (which improved my vocabulary dramatically, as home was not a place where long words were spoken - they were derided), my accent changed. I was told I sounded like my deceased grandmother [shrug]. The result of that was I had a speaking voice that got me jobs involving high level client contact - fairly or unfairly, people who are most likely to be in positions of authority tend to associate poor oracy with lower intelligence. A kinder way of putting it might be that Oracy skills give the impression that somebody is better educated.

I normally wonder what private schools do when a particular idea is discussed, as if something works, the odds are that they do it for their students first/have been doing it for years.

Private schools do have lessons in Oracy - it helps their students progress, even when they are not high achievers academically and whether they have a strong accent from in or outside the UK.

Moreover, it's been tested as part of the English Language GCSE for at least thirty years, so they aren't about to stop now.

It is on dd and ds report cards too yes..

DD1&"2 s school did not do this

I wouldn't say it was OTT in any subject tbh, contribution to class discussion is just as important as written work imh.

Neither of my DC's schools grade this in every subject for every report, no.

*imo that should say. Flipping tablet thinks it knows better again.

People are baffled because you said 'No oracy in GCSEs' and people are saying that there is oracy in GCSEs. Or did you mean 'No [not that, my question refers to] oracy in GCSEs.

How old is your child? My Y9 has never been given an oracy grade, but he gets marks for speaking in foreign language exams.

Yes ok, speaking element in Gcse English and speaking always assessed in languages.

But Now suggested to be assessed in every subject in every report, and that I think is ott.

I mean if you must maybe one overall grade, but for different subjects?

I received oracy grades and had to complete spoken assessments at GCSE for English, German and Spanish. I did my GCSEs in 2000. This is not a fad.

There were graded oral presentation elements to all subjects and more so at A level and definitely degree.

how do you see teachers over several subjects set 1 grade for how the student deals with this in ALL subjects?

I think it is a important thing to be able to do and I have no issue with it being graded.

Another aspect is that some qualifications are awarded on the basis of vivas - until the spec changed, any student on a technical strand of Drama had to be able to speak for a minimum period of time on camera about their work - if nothing else, it proved to moderators that it was their work and not that of a teacher/previous student/nicked off the internet. Degrees are sometimes only awarded after a viva.

It doesn't matter what job somebody does, the odds are that the ability to communicate verbally is an inherent requirement of doing it properly. And it certainly benefits those students who have dyslexia - if you can explain something to somebody else who has no prior knowledge, it shows you understand it, even if you still finding reading or writing about the subject difficult.

There are very few jobs around that don't require these skills. Why try to confine somebody who could well find out they are a talented orator/teacher/lawyer if they were to be encouraged, assessed and helped to improve to low skilled manual jobs, just because they're a bit uncomfortable speaking out loud at first?

What year is she in OP?

DS is in Y9 and I have never seen this in any of his reports. He is very quiet and we do get comments on how he needs to/has improved in speaking in class (when required to rather than just chatting to his friends) but no grades

Look at this the other way, if your child was severely dyslexic or couldn’t write well, but spoke perfectly well and explained themselves orally fantastically, you’d be thrilled to see these results.

From the teachers side it will be more work but there isn’t really any reason for you to be annoyed about it. You don’t have to take note of the grades.
You might discover that your child speaks a great deal in English and RE but refuses to speak out in Geography.

If you don’t like it, just ignore the marks!
(Or.... think about the teachers who now have another bit of work load added!)

My sons school do not do oral grades at all on reports, so think this is individual to the school. I wouldn’t mind if they did though and think if they are going to, it should be in all subjects. This gives the opportunity for children, including your own, to shine in subjects they might feel confident enough to speak out in and show that it’s not an across the board thing.
It is an important skill, but also it’s important for children to understand not everyone is good at everything and to know where they can improve.

It's a thing where I am, but we are working towards International Baccalaureate at sixth form, which includes a presentation &/or viva voce in several areas.

So from KS3 up, at least one of the trembly assessments in each subject is expected to be orally examined & graded.

Not a specific oracy annual grade, but we do half termly feedback & at least one of these will be a reflection on how the student presented/discussed - eg. one of our five year 7 assessments in English is a presentation on a poet they've enjoyed studying, with an analysis of a chosen poem.

Termly, not trembly ffs autocorrect. Although often it is!

A good idea would be for your daughter to do Speech and Drama with a good teacher on a one to one basis. It's more speech than drama but they learn how to be articulate, to phrase, to pitch correctly. The pupils can progress to LAMDA exams if they want.

It's a really valuable subject, instills confidence. I have a relative who took Speech and Drama and is now a performer on stage, says the Speech and Drama teaching was invaluable, helped him to be articulate in all settings. I've witnessed this seeing and listening to him (on the internet) when he has been interviewed. Mind you he was never backward in coming forward even before those lessons, nevertheless he learned how to present and project himself.

Worth a try op. You and your daughter have my sympathy, it's hard when you find it difficult to express but not an insurmountable problem. Think about it.

I get you OP. Especially if it's for every single subject. Incidentally my DS didn't have to do any oral component for his English IGCSE. Often these tasks are ridiculously artificial anyway.