To not be surprised people go to A&E and call ambulances overnight?

[SinkGirl]

DT2 has chicken pox,DT1 had it two weeks ago,

Today he’s gone downhill gradually and from 7pm onwards he was crying nonstop. At first I thought he’s just itchy and distressed, gave the last of the day’s calpol at 6:30pm so couldn’t give any more. By midnight we’d tried everything and he was screaming and hitting himself in the head. He has ASD and is nonverbal so can’t tell me how he’s feeling, but this is not normal for him.

Still, he only had a slight fever at this point, no other signs of infection etc. My main concern was something potentially causing a headache? So I figured I’d call 111 for advice. Called them for DT1 a couple of weeks ago but it’s the first time I’ve used the service for years.

Took 15 mins to get through to someone and she could hear DT2 screaming in the background. She sounded concerned and tried to speak to a clinician but they were all busy, so said they’d call me back.

At 2:10 he finally dozed off, for 20 minutes, then woke up screaming again. Dozed off again at 2:45, 111 called back just before 3am. I told them he had just fallen asleep and he’s dozing in and out but very distressed when he wakes. They can’t assess him while he’s asleep so they say I either have to wake him or close it. They get me to agree I have no current concerns and close it and tell me to call back if I’m worried. Of course 5 mins later he wakes up again very distressed, then settles again. Now I’m faced with either another wait of several hours, at the end of which he may be asleep again, or just waiting for GP to open. If he had a higher temp or other worrying signs I’d go to A&E but I understand why some people would have gone already.

People get crap for bypassing 111 but honestly I’m not surprised they do!

Out of hours care for non-life threatening issues is a mess. I was away from home with an ear problem, not something that needed a&e but definately needed looked at. So I drove 30 minutes to the local walk-in centre, who said they couldn't see me until after 6pm which required a referall from 111, despite the fact that there was clearly nurses there and they were fucking empty. So I called 111, sat on the phone for 30 minutes and their genius advice was to take painkillers and to make an appointment to see my gp in the morning. I said could I go to the walkin centre, and they said oh, it's not an emergency. It's a sodding non-emergency walking centre said I. Oh, but it's a GP issue, so we can't send you there.

So what's the point of non-emergency walkin centres that a) you can't walk in to and b) don't deal with non-emergencies?

So I went to my GP 2 days later, who operate a fucking stupid open surgery system where instead of using this amazing fucking device called a telephone to arrange a time to see a doctor, you just turn up and wait 4 hours in a queue, and they asked me why I didn't go to the walkin centre. At which point I picked up my chair and threw it through the fucking window.

The Irish equivalent of 111 (well at least the one for my area) is just as crap.

Call up. Give brief synopsis. Nurse will call you back. That can sometimes take a couple hours. Nurse calls back. Go through life history twice. Told to come to see the OOGP but in 2hrs from now!

Dying and I mean dying with a migraine that nothing will shift and constantly vomming!! Not impressed

I think that 111 potentially stops people who don't need to clogging up a and e.

In theory, but in practice many of the time wasters just go straight to A&E and never even consider ringing 111

To ease your mind about going into the ward - DS2 has chicken pox complications & rotavirus. We had our own room and apart from the boredom of quarantine for DS2 it was fine. At least it was peaceful at night!

Out of hours care for non-life threatening issues is a mess.

Exactly, this was the point I was making really, regardless of how my little one is doing. If there were a more effective system for out of hours care, far less people would feel the need to go straight to A&E or call an ambulance when it’s not warranted. When I was on hold waiting to talk to them initially there was a repeated message about how if it’s an emergency to hang up and call 999 - I knew it wasn’t an emergency but my son was screaming the house down, hitting himself in the head, I was pretty close to doing just that! I understand why someone would have done it in that situation. The fact that they gave me no medical advice at all when they called back because he was asleep is pretty dire really.

I remember a doctor coming out to see me in the night when I was a kid and had measles - I realise that this may no longer be feasible but there needs to be a reliable and effective alternative. It seems the service varies so much by area and in some parts it works well.

Chicken pox can rapidly descend into a serious condition. My (then) 3 year old nearly died from it and was in hospital for weeks after his blisters got infected.

He wasn’t a child to make a fuss and just sat quietly so I had no idea anything was amiss until I changed his PJs and found him covered in burst blisters. 111 told me to give him calpol! Fortunately my mothers instincts kicked in and I took him to the out of hours GP who admitted him to the paediatric ward In literally seconds. He said if I had waited - well the consequences would have been catastrophic.

As it was he was on the ward for weeks and very very ill. I never had a clue chicken pox could be serious - he was my third child and the two older ones had had it ‘normally’ so it was a huge shock.

If I ever had any further children I’d have paid whatever it cost for a vaccine. Please DO NOT underestimate this disease - any concerns go straight to A&E or a GP.

My middle DD had CP at 7 months and ended up with a nasty infection and having to go into hospital. She had blisters all around her nappy area that got infected and she screamed everytime she passed urine; she had them in her mouth, her ears, her scalp, there wasn't a cm on her without a blister. Even our GP was horrified when she saw her and we spent on a few days in paeds where thankfully they were able to sedate her and tube feed for a few days . I get absolute rage when people drag kids out and about with CP, it can be horrific for some kids. DD is now in her early 20s and has horrific scars all over her body, including her face.

I'd insist on a GP appointment today, and warn reception that he will be contagious. Hope he's better soon

In pharmacy we never give kids phenergan anymore! Just watch the dose if you're insistent on giving it

DH is going to ask the GP if it’s safe to give him some of he’s struggling with the itching later. Will see what they say. Obviously if it’s not safe then I wouldn’t dream of giving it - I’m just trying everything I can to give him some relief. I’ve bought about 6 different creams / gels, just to try and make it slightly more bearable

111 are pretty useless imo, I phoned them once because ds2 had an allergic reaction to something and had a swollen lip, he also has Asd and he's non verbal ( he's nine) they kept asking it he was talking normally ,well no but he's non verbal they sent a paramedic in the end who took us too A and E after a dose of piriton he was fine, I phoned them last year as dh had a skin infection around his nipple it was red and swollen ( it was weekend so the Gp was closed) they said it wasn't urgent and as the nearest walk in centre was in a town about 14 miles away it was up to us wether we went ,I asked about the two walk in centre ,s that were in nearby towns each about six miles away and they didn't know they existed, they said we would receive a call back ,I'm still waiting ! Dh did go to a nearby walk in centre and they said he needed to go to A and E !he ended up having minor surgery.

I’m so sorry so many of your little ones have suffered so badly. It’s horrifying, and more disturbing given it could be prevented for most if the NHS introduced the vaccine. I was planning on getting it once my son’s DLA was granted but more to prevent the inconvenience of time off nursery, I really didn’t expect them to be this unwell.

DH is at the doctors with him now, hopefully they can do something to help him.

While system is ridiculous

111 is a waste of money and resources. We need a + e to be better funded, more out of hours services and for every gp surgery to have extended and weekend opening

*whole

I'm glad you've got an appointment OP. I hope your DC turns a corner soon.

I just want to say that I've had quite a few good experiences with 111, especially in terms of them organising OOH GP appointments for me which I've had to do in three completely different areas of the country and in all three instances I saw a doctor within a couple of hours of calling.

Generally I find them overcautious. Twice they've wanted to send an ambulance when it has been fine for me to get myself or DD to the hospital. This must put an extra strain on the ambulance service.

The 111 script is frustrating (for example being asked whether you're bleeding when it's breathing difficulties you've called about) but I suppose they have to ask the critical questions to establish any immediately life threatening issues as some people might not think to mention certain things.

I’ve found 111 really helpful

Hope he feels better ASAP.

CP can b horrific. When DTs had it I did end up at a and e with one of them sent by the gp, who queried possible sepsis. She didn't have sepsis but some very infected spots.

They were off school for nearly three weeks.

Somehow I never knew about vaccinating privately was an option. I absolutely would have done if I had known about it, and how serious it could be.

I hope he is on the road to recovery soon.

If anyone’s interested there are quite a few of the big Superdrug’s who now do the vaccination. You have to book but it’s straightforward.
My eldest had terrible chickenpox and was almost admitted. We went back and forward several times to GP (who told us it was shingles even though she hadn’t had chickenpox but at the time I didn’t know that wasn’t possible) and a&e in the end, it’s a&e that took it seriously and closely monitored for a good while.
I think there is consideration to make it a routine vaccination. I paid for 2 of mine who hadn’t had it to be vaccinated.

111 are useless. When my now 9 Yo DD was about a year old her temperature was 40 degrees. I called 111 and they said they'd get someone to call me back. They did not do so for 12 hours, during which time I'd used Calpol and cold flannels to get her temperature down a bit, but way less than impressed.

They have special procedures for kids with disabilities and who aren’t verbal as many will scream and cry over even minor things as that is often how some kids communicate. Provided you told 111 that your son is non-verbal then their advice comes with as much medical backing as any you’ll get after a 4-6 hour wait in A&E; perhaps more so as 111 uses experienced nurses while your local A&E may use students

Oooh looks like he's blistering poor guy I would get his skin checked out because it could be infected maybe if it's hot to touch. Don't give him nurofen, that's the first thing the GP told us. You can also talk to the pharmacist about this.

I remember you posting earlier. I also have 2 y.o. twin boys who caught CP this year. Anyways I also kind of got really worried and took them to A&E, but we left early because the wait was going from 4 hours to 6 hours to 8 hours etc and when you're dealing with ASD this is really impossible. Plus with the wait as long as it was, it made more sense to try the GP in the morning since I had no idea if we would have even be seen that night. They also did not quarantine us in the waiting area so I felt guilty to have two highly infectious toddlers around a lot of immune compromised people in A&E.

I took them home and made a GP appointment first thing in the morning, since you have to call at 8 and then plead your case to the receptionist. I have found that if you are as detailed as possible with the receptionist they will be more likely to give you an appointment. I always mention their temperature, if they have been vomitting, that they are nonverbal, etc.

111 has only worked for us to get us appointments. So if we explain to 111 what is going on, then they deem it serious but not serious enough for A&E, they will schedule us an out of hours appointment (if it's over the weekend).

In my experence 111 are quite varied in their help and response but if i had a young child on my hands then i wouldnt mess, he'd be up to A&E there and then. I wouldnt bother asking for an ambulance as i can probally get him there quicker we don't have that far to go.

Tie up A&E resouces?. I don't think so at all in those circumstances I have a child i fear may have something serious and the instincs are shouting long and loud to get him help.

Furthermore I think I have a LOT more justification for help than the ammount of wallies there on Friday and Saturday nights who deliberartly posiion themesleves with booze, they need not have done that;!

My child did not choose to be ill!

If there were a more effective system for out of hours care, far less people would feel the need to go straight to A&E or call an ambulance when it’s not warranted.

Totally agree with this. And the fact that timely access to non-emergency medical care may actually prevent a lot of people getting bad enough to genuinely need A&E. I was admitted to hospital for four days with complications of tonsillitis, which never would have gotten that bad had I had timely access to non-emergency medical care.

Have you tried an oatmeal bath? Put porridge oats in a clean sock and tie the top. Make the bath blood temperature not warmer. Squeeze the sock into the water and put the baby in the bath. He can play with the sock if he likes. Just squeeze the liquid all over him. Let him play for a while. Pat him dry with a soft towel. Repeat after a few hours if needed. It always seems to work.

I didn’t get any advice, or an offer of an assessment in-person, that’s the whole point.

GP says this is just a normal response to chicken pox, nothing to worry about apparently. Antibiotic cream for the nasty looking blisters and that’s it. She said it’s fine to give him Phenergan but I will definitely be cautious with it.

The problem with 111 is they are trying to diagnose over the phone which is very difficult and if they tell you not to go to a&e and then something bad happens, they are liable.
So they have a really hard job trying to assess whether a patient is likely to deteriorate without even seeing the patient!

All the dr will do is prescribe Brufen and Pamol

I hope not, you can't take brufen for chicken pox!