To not be surprised people go to A&E and call ambulances overnight?

[SinkGirl]

DT2 has chicken pox,DT1 had it two weeks ago,

Today he’s gone downhill gradually and from 7pm onwards he was crying nonstop. At first I thought he’s just itchy and distressed, gave the last of the day’s calpol at 6:30pm so couldn’t give any more. By midnight we’d tried everything and he was screaming and hitting himself in the head. He has ASD and is nonverbal so can’t tell me how he’s feeling, but this is not normal for him.

Still, he only had a slight fever at this point, no other signs of infection etc. My main concern was something potentially causing a headache? So I figured I’d call 111 for advice. Called them for DT1 a couple of weeks ago but it’s the first time I’ve used the service for years.

Took 15 mins to get through to someone and she could hear DT2 screaming in the background. She sounded concerned and tried to speak to a clinician but they were all busy, so said they’d call me back.

At 2:10 he finally dozed off, for 20 minutes, then woke up screaming again. Dozed off again at 2:45, 111 called back just before 3am. I told them he had just fallen asleep and he’s dozing in and out but very distressed when he wakes. They can’t assess him while he’s asleep so they say I either have to wake him or close it. They get me to agree I have no current concerns and close it and tell me to call back if I’m worried. Of course 5 mins later he wakes up again very distressed, then settles again. Now I’m faced with either another wait of several hours, at the end of which he may be asleep again, or just waiting for GP to open. If he had a higher temp or other worrying signs I’d go to A&E but I understand why some people would have gone already.

People get crap for bypassing 111 but honestly I’m not surprised they do!

Please do not wake him! Let him sleep

Don't wake him, just go in and lie down beside him if you are worried.
DONT WAKE HIM

Have you given piriton for the itchiness? And a bath with oats to sooth? Ring a pharmacist this morning they may be able to offer some remidies.

I guess it depends on the call volume when you call - based on the way the call handler sounded I suspect it was seen as a reasonably high level of priority due to how much he was screaming.

He woke up - looks to me like one massive blister on his nappy line is infected. We were prescribed antibiotic cream for his brother so have applied that but it looks worse than his did so I wonder if he needs oral antibiotics. Temp currently 38.6. Have checked his blood sugars and they’re unusually high for him (he has hypoglycaemia when not eating so is often low in the morning) but that’s common with bugs, and ketones aren’t too bad. If his sugars deteriorate he can have direct access to the children’s unit but I’d be very reluctant to take chicken pox into a ward of sick kids if there are other options.

Have given calpol and Piriton, I’ve got Phenergan Elixir coming in the post today after a fellow ASD mum recommended it - I think you’re right, I’m sure from a sensory perspective it’s absolute torture and that would make sense with how he’s behaving. I’ve taken that stuff and it’s very effective but also very sedating so will try half a dose and see if it helps with the itching and helps him rest. He’s very tired already.

He’s not grabbing at or hitting his head now, actually he’s quite calm so I’m less concerned but going to keep an eye on his temp and the pox themselves.

This is now day 6 since the first spots - he developed several on his tongue yesterday and I’m sure he has others inside his mouth. He’s off his food but drinking lots so that’s good. His twin was also worst on day 5 but he already had most of his spots by them, DT2 only had most show up yesterday so I’m not sure we’ve seen the worst yet.

Bloody horrible illness, I wonder if there are any current campaigns to get the NHS to vaccinate as I would definitely get involved in that - if I could go back I’d prioritise getting it over lots of other things but hindsight is 20/20.

Are you giving piriton aswell? When dc had it bad the pharmacist recommended calpol, piriton and aqueous calamine cream.

It worked well.

Xpost, sorry.

We have a 24/7 gp walk in at the hospital here, all 111 does is tells you to go, most larger hospitals do because they can handle all the more minor no injury cases. But with chicken pox you should never go to the dr or hospital because it's so contagious and dangerous for immunocompromised people. My gp sees chicken pox cases in the car park! If they are distressed a cool bath with porridge oats in it really works, otherwise paint them with calamine and distract with favourite cartoons etc. It's distressing for them, distressing for you but there's nothing the dr can do

The reason A &E is so busy is because people hi there when it’s unnecessary. A child with a fever, doesn’t need to go to A&E. All the dr will do is prescribe Brufen and Pamol and send you on your way, but not before you’ve been there nearly all night. Priority cases don’t wait in A&E. Mostly the issue is people don’t want to pay to go to the doctor.

Not perfectly set up for small children:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-devon-48750078

Has he got any on the palms of his hands or soles of his feet? I’ve heard that that is potentially really serious and shows someone needs medical attention, as those are places that shouldn’t normally get them.

I don't understand why she couldn't assess him because he was asleep. She can't see or speak to him as a young child so surely you give the history as his mum.

If you think 111 are bad A&E can be even worse! Took my DD to urgent care due to a high temp that wouldn't come down with calpol or ibuprofen ! The doctor put her in a room stripped her of with a fan and said ill come back in an hour she should be fine to go home then, she was sick twice and when her temp still didn't come down they sent us to another hospital to the children's ward! 2 doctors examined her and said it was a bad cold !! When she finally started to come round & eat they sent us home.

Took her to see the nurse practitioner in the morning at our (brilliant) GP surgery who diagnosed severe tonsillitis and 2 weeks worth of antibiotics ! Took 3 days of them to get her temp down!!

After that I just thought I pray to god nothing is never seriously wrong because if they cant even spot tonsillitis we have no chance 😟

Hope your DS starts to feel better soon 💐

First of all, let me say that I understand complications to chicken pox are quite rare, but at a similar age my DNephew developed an infection which led to a hospital stay and IV antibiotics due to chickenpox. 111 said a high temp was usual but DSil said she knew something wasn’t right and took him to the GP. The GP took one look at the infected spots and asked why she hadn’t taken him to A and E? She then took him to A and E. He was kept in for a few days and was fine after antibiotic treatment.

I would definitely go to the GP just to make sure everything is ok.

Please do not drug your child with phenergan.

It will knock him out and prevent him from being able to wake if he needs to. CP has the potential to be more serious, the headache is a red flag for encephalitis, if you knock him out with meds he won't be able to tell you when/if it becomes worse. He needs to be able to wake naturally.

Off topic slightly, but when you've given the full days dose of calpol already, you can give baby nurofen instead (and vice versa).

I didn’t order it so I could “drug him”. I ordered it because the Piriton doesn’t seem to help, and this is specifically recommended for chicken pox. I know it’s stronger, which is why I said I’d try a smaller dose when it arrives to see if it helps him.

Booked him into the GP in an hour, some of the spots under his nappy line look very inflamed and possibly filled with pus, hard to tell. He’s now fast asleep on the sofa and his temp is coming down.

DH is taking him to the doctors, I’ll get him to ask about the Phenergan and if they say it’s not safe to give it then obviously I won’t.

Off topic slightly, but when you've given the full days dose of calpol already, you can give baby nurofen instead (and vice versa).

Not with chicken pox sadly - normally we use nurofen if they’re ill as it works well for them but there are risks associated with serious skin infection when giving nurofen for chicken pox

I didn’t order it so I could “drug him”

That's the effect it will have. I'm not getting at you OP bit it is vital that your child is able to wake naturally, particularly when they are so unwell. They need to be able to tell you when they need you.

Off topic slightly, but when you've given the full days dose of calpol already, you can give baby nurofen instead (and vice versa).

I know the op is aware anyway but for anyone else reAding do not give ibuprofen with chicken pox

OP hope your little one gets better soon, and the GP is helpful.
Just wanted to say that I've only had good experiences with 111, especially compared with trying to get a GP appointment for my 6 month old daughter which is no easy feat here!

111 is useful for non-urgent advice and for making appointments with the walk-in or mobile nurse. For anything more urgent you need to go to A&E.

When I called 111 for my 6-month-old they said they couldn’t advise for under 1s and send an ambulance. They manage our OOH GP too, so we took him into A&E. (MIL let him fall off the changing table but he seemed ok ish so really we wanted someone to check him over and it was Sunday of a BH weekend).

I would have been happy with an out of hours GP appointment and would have taken him at 3am when they called me back if they’d offered me that, but it was either wake him up to assess him (not sure what they could have assessed other than me telling them to be honest) or close the case which seems a bit irresponsible to me. I would have thought they’d have erred on the side of caution and offered for him to be looked at but I wasn’t thinking straight. I should have specifically asked.

None of his soles or palms although he has a couple on the underside of his fingers.

Hopefully the GP can check him over and reassure us he’s okay and just struggling with this horrid illness. But worried about this patch by his nappy but could just be where it’s rubbing

I tried whatever the service before 111 was (NHS helpline maybe?) when were DC little. In every case I was looking for reassurance that I was worrying too much and didn’t need to see a doctor. Everytime I rang them (maybe 4 times) they were very vague and told me I ought to go to the doctor. I did the first two times only to be told that DC would be fine, no treatment beyond fluids and Calpol/vicks required. The second couple of times I ignored the advice and just gave fluids/calpol/ vicks as seems appropriate and after that I stopped ringing them. I had learned to trust my own instincts. When I was sufficiently worried to go straight to the doctor I did just that.

So they were a shower of box ticking shite 25 years ago and it doesn’t seem that much has changed.

In pharmacy we never give kids phenergan anymore! Just watch the dose if you're insistent on giving it