Should I speak to teacher - year 4

[plum100]

everyone , just after a bit of advice before I go and speak to my child’s teacher .
DD is in year 4, up to now has enjoyed school , not the brightest - if I had to guess on ability I would say she’s on the 2nd from bottom table in the class for maths and literacy. Had an issue this year with one particular child disrupting her work , taking her pens etc and she put a note in the worry box and she was moved away from him.

Has since moved back and I have been in for a parent morning so I know who she sits with and I’ve seen what they are like.

Tonight she tells me she had her assessment results and she just missed out on achieving standard and feels like she has let her class down. I asked her if she finds school hard . She said she does , she said the children on her table are really disruptive, always getting warnings and sometimes she finds the teacher has moved onto a different part of something and she has no clue what’s going on- she said sometimes she goes all day without learning anything unless it’s in her group for maths and English. She also said she doesn’t feel like she belongs - all the girls are together and she is on this table with 4 boys and 1 Girl who isn’t close by - she basically says she in in the middle of these 3 boys who are always talking over her.
I feel really bad. I have known she has been on this table all year . But I am believer in teachers classroom- teachers rules and I’m not one to go demanding certain things for my child - she’s my third so it’s not a case of pfb. I thought the teacher must think she is their ability so that’s why she is there. But now i am thinking it’s been detrimental to her this year sitting with them. She could have learned so much more had she the opportunity to sit with less distractions. My dd has said despite she has never had a warning or consequence.
I want to go in tomorrow and have a chat - I am not prepared for her to be stuck with these children again next year. She said tonight if there was a door to go through to change schools she would.
Do you think it’s reasonable to go in and say something ? Like I say I don’t normally
Like to get involved. But I feel it’s almost like the teacher thinks well dd isn’t that bright so I will
Stick her on the table with the ones who aren’t worth bothering with and invest my time in the ones that can achieve. Am I being unreasonable? Any advise would be gratefully received - I would
Like to go in with a bit of clarity . Thanks for reading

I think the most important thing is that the teacher hea rs how low your daughter feels. I am sure the teacher has good reasons for the class layout but it is adversely affecting your daughter and her voice needs to be heard.

You have not let her down, she is clearly able to talk to you and now letting her teach know how she is feeling is absolutely the right thing to do.

I would also say something

The teachers are there to teach all the children and not just the achievers. Ask what progress she has made, ask what you can do at home to help.

Ask for her to be on a less disruptive table - there are studies to suggest that set tables don’t work and there’s no reason for them not mix

Yes I would . If a child wants to change school ime are very unhappy by their . She still has another month before they break up depending where you are.

I would also nip in quite early in year 5

I’d definitely have a word with the teacher. If your daughter is on a table with disruptive kids, is it possible that she doesn’t feel able to speak up when she doesn’t understand, or that she doesn’t get heard over the others?

I have a dd in y4 who wouldn’t
Say anything to the teacher, similar situation, but would tell me. Quick word with the teacher and all was sorted.

Definitely get it nipped in the bud before going back in September.

Thank you all. That has made me feel a bit better. I hate the thought of her being g u happy there - I don’t think she has had a very good year

Teacher here and I would definitely say something. Focus on how your daughter feels.

It’s all about your approach. Relay your concerns to the teacher explaining exactly what your daughter said. Her teacher will want to help. You both want the same thing, for your DD to be happy and learning well.

sometimes she finds the teacher has moved onto a different part of something and she has no clue what’s going on

Whilst I appreciate that the disruption can contribute to this, it could also be worth you having her processing speed checked. Have a word with the teacher and ask if they can organise it for her.
She may benefit not only from being moved to a different table but also from having her work broken down into different stages and given to her in a different way.

Blanktimes - is that a dyslexia test? Speed processing - will schools happily just test that on request? Thanks everyone. While I do feel that sitting on this table hasn’t been helpful I know she struggles and does need extra help - but she doesn’t seem to get it - she seems easily lost in class and then it’s too late for her to understand what’s going on

Hi! Child Psychologist here. I think it might be worth having her assessed. She might not met criteria for a referral to the schools educational psychologist but you can source a private assessment. This will give an in depth insight into her strengths and challenges, which can be used to put effective interventions into place as well as offer work that plays to her strengths to build her self esteem and sense of herself as a competent learner. She obviously has some great strengths if she can reflect on what she finds tricky and what distracts her . She needs help with her self concept as a learner and know how to use her strengths to compensate for her challenges (as we all do) life long learners have faith in their abilities not their achievements.

My DD was always a very quiet, sensible little girl, she spend her primary years being put next to a particularly disruptive boy children because she was 'a calming influence'. I frequently had to speak to teachers, every year it was the same thing. I would leave it for a term and then have a chat asking for a seating change. I understood he needed to be put next to someone, I just felt one term if the year was enough per child. He really likes my DD and would ask to be moved back near her (and be in her group on school trips and during PE etc) she just couldn't get away from him. Some teachers would move him back next to her after a few weeks, I'd have to go in a speak to them again. This went on for years until she left for high school.

A cognitive assessment such ad the WISC V combined with the WIAT would be appropriate and also screen for any underlying learning difficulties such as dyslexia.

OP difficulties following complex instructions and organising yourself to do so can be part of dyspraxia - don’t know if that’s what BlankTimes was getting at. It’s often overlooked because everything dyspraxia = clumsiness, which is not the case.

I got my dd a tutor in year four, even though I’m a primary school teacher, and it made a massive difference. It just gave her that little boost that she needed to clamber out of the group with the more disruptive children.

Dd was able to say to her tutor if she didn’t understand something that they had done that week and they could go over it together.

Your dd might be more willing to to listen to and work with you than mine was. 😂 Her teacher might be willing to share her long term planning with you so that you know she’s going to be doing subtraction in maths and adverbs in literary that week so you can do ten minutes a night one-on-one with her.

I would go in and be really polite but to the point.
I think a lot of us Mums worry that when we say we feel we should "go in and talk to the teacher" people will assume we're going in to cause aggro!
In a class with possibly 30 other kids in, if your DD is quiet but struggling to keep up for whatever reason, it would be easy for it to go unnoticed, my DS was the same- well behaved, quiet, but struggling to cope. It was only when I made an appointment to pop in and talk to his teacher that it was addressed. Especially as your DD is with some quite boisterous boys!
I would also find out whether, next term as it's the end of the year now, whether she could be placed in a different class. It was the best thing which could have happened for my DS, he made firm friends and never looked back.

I would definitely say something. Ability is only one way to group children. Why should your daughter sit with - assuming you are right and she is reporting accurately - three disruptive students when she is behaving well, never getting any help or getting to contribute? The teacher needs to think about what is fair.

I remember being told by mentors and HOD and other well-meaning idiots people to sit naughty boys next to well-behaved girls, and saying no.

Absolutely have a chat with the teacher. Talk them though how your daughter is feeling at school and ask what options there are moving forward.

Something that might be useful to be aware of is that often (though I'm not sure if this translates as young as your DC) reasonably able, poorly behaved students end up in bottom groups because they can't be bothered to work and so their test scores are low despite their ability not being low. By secondary we can often have lower sets where a reasonable number are able but lazy and disruptive boys who are working substantially below their ability levels. The problem is that it has an effect on genuinely weaker boys and girls (such as your DC) who need the tailored support of a lower group/slower pace/extra support.

Agree with others - go in.
I would also question setting tables. That hasn’t been best practice for years.

She might not met criteria for a referral to the school's educational psychologist but you can source a private assessment
hi @Trebla do you have a list of those criteria please thx in advance

I think the criteria depends on the co-hort

The sENco should provide a test the private tests aren’t as accepted as the senco or Ed phy tests so don’t waste money until you can get one via school

Look up 37 signs of dyslexia

Try Nessy online they have a home screening tool and some interesting lessons in line quite cheap

Thresholds and referral varies Local Authority to Local Authority. Approach the teacher. Ask to speak to the SENCo at school. Raise your concerns and state you would like her assessed by an ed psych. You can always contact the Ed psychs at your local authority ask to speak to the Principal Ed Psych and they can talk you through the process more accurately for your area. Or go private.

My ds started having problems in Year 4. I think he may have had them before but they became really noticeable as he went through year 4.

I spoke to his teacher who just said he was fine, just not an A* student! We then had a series of private assessments and got him the help he needed. He was dyspraxic and had auditory processing problems which sadly is not addressed at school. I think that due to lack of funding schools can’t help anymore unless the child is at least 2 years behind.

Anyway, DS then improved constantly and has just happily sat his GCSEs. He may not be an A* student but he wasn’t being helped to achieve his potential and that was may concern.

Private assessment is done by someone with the same qualifications as an LA ed psych. Its the same assessment. There may be some bias that the school may not 'value' it as much as an LA ed psych assessment as there can sometimes be some preciousness. However the results would be the same regardless as it's a standardized assessment.

Two things.

Firstly, I think the teacher was wrong to move your child when she said she was struggling with a disruptive child next to her. The disruptive child should have been moved.

Secondly, you are your child’s advocate, so yes, you should go in and speak to the teacher. Teachers aren’t perfect and they teacher may well have not picked up on everything that has been happening.

DD had a similar experience of being sat next to a disruptive boy. We tried to give her techniques etc to deal with it not wanting to interfere with the teacher (like you). Finally, we had to say something, he immediately apologised for not spotting that this had been happening and moved the disruptive child (who was and still is known for being disruptive) the very next day. I regret not speaking to her teacher about it sooner.