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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Man-handling climate change protestors

999 replies

Leafyhouse · 20/06/2019 23:17

Anyone else watch with horror as a climate change protestor was forcefully removed by Mark Field from the Mansion House speech? I mean, I'm no fan of political activism, 'direct action' and so on, but she wasn't presenting him with any direct threat, just shouting and being annoying. AIBU to think that his behaviour was totally unacceptable there?

OP posts:
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5
DonkeyHohtay · 21/06/2019 08:05

Nobody knew who she was or what she was going to do.

But because she's a woman, she should be allowed to march up to the Chancellor and say her piece while everyone sits nicely and asks her politely to leave.

Right-o.

RedForShort · 21/06/2019 08:06

Cadsuane: "So are you saying just because she was female and petite she couldn't be dangerous? Nice profiling."

If you read it correctly and comprehend without your confirmation bias, the 'profiling' is about why he laid hands on her.

He had already shown strong dislike of climate protesters, as seen by his letter. He had a lot of rage because of that she was, a climate change protester. Not a change he though she was a terrorist.

His 'apology' was most likely drafted by a Tory whip, whist Field ate and drank that night.

PianoTuner567 · 21/06/2019 08:07

How do you remove a protestor though, without physical force? Genuine question - protestors are only ever removed from places by being physically dragged away, and you can only ever do that by overpowering them.

RandomlyChosenName · 21/06/2019 08:11

Firstly, they really really need to step up security. If protesters can get in, so can anyone. I dislike most of the MPs. But I don't want any of them, even Boris Johnson, getting killed.

Secondly, it all depends on what he thought. If he believed she might be armed, his actions were reasonable. If he knew she was on a peaceful protest, they were not.

If she had been armed, he would be hailed as a hero...

Jillyhilly · 21/06/2019 08:11

This is one of those strange social media moments when what you see in the video is entirely influenced by your experience, beliefs and/or the ideology through which you see the world. The feminist thread on this seems to think that he grabbed her by the throat because that’s the kind of thing men do to women. The Tory-hating brigade seem to think that he assaulted her because this is the kind of thing Tories do to ordinary people. It’s all very weird.

Thingsdogetbetter · 21/06/2019 08:11

Would we be having this discussion if a security guard had done the same thing? Or would we say he was doing his job? How about if a woman had pushed and grabbed her to remove her?

We have no idea what she would have done if he had simply blocked her and asked her to leave so saying she'd have quietly left is an assumption not a fact.

I agree he was over the top, but I think most people's anger at him is because he's a male in a position of power, rather than his panicked actions.

BeerandBiscuits · 21/06/2019 08:13

YABU. She wasn't injured and if she had turned out to be a terrorist he'd have been called a hero. I think he acted instinctively in response to a perceived threat.
I'm shocked that she was able to get into the room so easily. If anyone can wander in there's nothing to stop anyone putting on a red dress and pretending to be a climate protestor.

Manclife1 · 21/06/2019 08:13

Lawful and proportionate all day everyday. Anticipated a breach of the peace and removed her from the location. You can be outraged all you like but if your going to pull these stunts you need to know that people (including MPs) can use force to stop you and remove you from private property.

IAmAlwaysLikeThis · 21/06/2019 08:14

"I think most people's anger at him is because he's a male in a position of power, rather than his panicked actions."

And? why is that not a good reason to be angry? A man in a position of power has no business grabbing women just cos he can. Do we live in some dystopian future where men can do whatever they like these days?

A security guard would presumably have actual training that means he would grab her in a safe way, not by the neck.

DonkeyHohtay · 21/06/2019 08:14

Would we be having this discussion if a security guard had done the same thing? Or would we say he was doing his job?

This is exactly the conversation we SHOULD be having. Where the hell were police and security? Room full of MPs and prominent people in the business community and this crowd of protesters just walk in? That's appalling and if I were Philip Hammond I'd be very worried about my personal security.

IAmAlwaysLikeThis · 21/06/2019 08:15

A stunt? Protesting is a stunt?

Some of you really need to engage more with the world.

haveuheard · 21/06/2019 08:15

I'm pretty surprised security is so poor that that many people got into an event with so many important people.

Vulpine · 21/06/2019 08:17

Id be ashamed if he were my husband.

nuttynutjob · 21/06/2019 08:18

Handmaid's Tale UK

Man-handling climate change protestors
RedForShort · 21/06/2019 08:18

That's because protesters often drop on the ground. They have to be carried out. Often after security* have tried to manipulated them away (by forming barriers with themselves) and asked them to leave.

So usually they have been carried after a non-physically attempt to remove them, rather than immediately slammed into a pillar and grapped by the neck.

RedForShort · 21/06/2019 08:19

*security or those attempting to remove them.

(That's in response to PianoTuner567)

Mishtry · 21/06/2019 08:19

Stephen Timms MP was stabbed by a woman so it’s not like a woman can’t pose a threat. And if she was shouting you don’t know how aggressive she is likely to be.

I don’t know, that video is deeply unpleasant to look at. If he had seen her coming from a long way away he should have just blocked her path, but then he would have already been out of his seat if he thought he had to intervene. It looks a bit like everyones a bit stunned and he decided to react late and then overcompensated. I don’t like it and think he used too much force but I can understand how it happened.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 21/06/2019 08:23

So many pp's being Field apologists but I'm sure they were all incensed when poor old Nige had been milkshaked 'what if it had been battery acid' 'they should lock up the milkshake throwers because thats assault'

MP physically assaults a member of the public, 'well she deserved it'

So I'm guessing if your daughters were man handled in such a way she'd have deserved it right?

Hang your fucking heads in shame

RedForShort · 21/06/2019 08:24

Would we be having this discussion if a security guard had done the same thing?
Yes

Or would we say he was doing his job?
No

How about if a woman had pushed and grabbed her to remove her?
Not sure. Far to abnormal a situation to know (because knowing how you'll react if better based on having previously experienced it). I do feel due to the unusual situation of it the reaction would be greater. Both in its negative and positive reactions.

ShatnersWig · 21/06/2019 08:31

@JustAnotherPoster00 Very, very few people have said "well she deserved it" so get off your soapbox. What many of us have said is that in the current climate it is UNDERSTANDABLE that someone in this position will react first and ask questions later. That's not the same as saying they necessarily agreed with the amount of force used.

Field has, rightly, referred himself to the necessary Parliamentary bodies. A charge of assault from the Police may be forthcoming. We have to wait and see on that.

Doesn't mean some of us can't see both sides and why instinctively someone might react like this.

ShatnersWig · 21/06/2019 08:31

But yes, serious questions to be asked all around, including where the fuck security were.

Buster72 · 21/06/2019 08:39

He used reasonable force to remove a trespasser. So it's not assault.

She was not going to leave on her own accord.

PettyContractor · 21/06/2019 08:41

People reacting to a perceived threat of violence are not expected to calibrate their responses perfectly. So even if he he was more forceful than necessary, the law would allow him some lattitude.

People watching the video are not making allowance for the emotional difference between being there and watching after the event. Also, too much hindsight generally. Yes, he could have blocked her way if he'd stood up sooner, as someone suggested. I don't believe he deliberately remained seated to give him an excuse to grab someone awkwardly with his hands as she was about to pass behind him. I think it's considerably more likely that he just didn't react quickly enough to block her without grabbing her.

Towelsareblue · 21/06/2019 08:42

He used unreasonable force, slamming her into a pillar and pushing her out with his hand around her neck was appalling. Agree re awful security breech though.

curiositycreature · 21/06/2019 08:44

I’m really struggling to believe he wasn’t aware what they were protesting. There were lots of protesters there with sashes on saying “climate emergency”. He saw her coming from the back of the room. This didn’t look like a knee jerk reaction because he thought she was a terrorist / was going to murder someone. He looked really fucking angry!!

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