Man-handling climate change protestors

[Leafyhouse]

Anyone else watch with horror as a climate change protestor was forcefully removed by Mark Field from the Mansion House speech? I mean, I'm no fan of political activism, 'direct action' and so on, but she wasn't presenting him with any direct threat, just shouting and being annoying. AIBU to think that his behaviour was totally unacceptable there?

Except, Genetic, that you said "To get to palace yard you have to go through security".

@lsatis

"Mummy" has switched from saying she was going to pick up a table knife and stab the Chancellor with it, to saying she was guilty of 'trespass', to now saying she had intent to not be 'nice'. That's some charge sheet.

That is correct- you do. But on that occasion the man forced his way in- which was a major security breach.

That’s exactly my point- at mansion house, people might’ve presumed security = safety. MPs who were in Parliament during the attack KNOW that’s not true.

Genetic, Masood didn't "get around" security. He burst through opened gates carrying knives and attacked the only police officer on duty. It simply isn't remotely comparable.

@cinnamontoast

Aggravated trespass is criminal which is the offence she was committing

You can act to prevent a breach of the peace if you anticipate it. Doesn’t have to be any threatening behaviour.

It's the CPS that press charges, not the victim - but the police might be respecting her wishes on this by not putting a case forward. Maybe she doesn't want it to go to court because she just wants to be left in peace and she knows the tabloids would pull her life to shreds.

And therefore all the people saying ‘all the people there knew she couldn’t be armed’ - well in Parliament it used to be the case that ‘all the people there knew people couldn’t be armed’
That was my point.

Never mind.

Mark field overreacted. He was wrong.
MPs get death threats all the time.

He wasn’t the only officer on duty.

you seem to have forgotten to answer the question about what you claim the protester was guilty of?

well, they were definitely guilty of something.

Maybe the Public Order Act. 1986. (although this seems to need violence)
Or maybe - Aggravated Trespass - Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 (obstructing or disrupting a lawful activity)

As Teddy Bass once said.
"Where there's a will - and there is a fing will - there's a way - and there is a fing way."

Perhaps she was following Jo Brands hilarious instruction to use battery acid. It looks bad for sure on video and he could well be dick but some of the media reaction is basically just down to politics. And yes women can be dangerous as the labour MP for Newham Stephen Timms found out when he got stabbed and almost died. The assailant got a long sentence.

And the right to protest is non negotiable but this was not in and open public space and the person either broke in or conned their way in. Not the same as waving a banner outside parliament. Security clearly failed here but if everyone is all for this then we are all going to have to foot the hundreds of millions bill for bodyguards for every MP. Then maybe councillors, judges etc.

Having watched it she smiles and seems to laugh when getting marched out. It’s a massive success for them. With MPs being targeted they should all be allowed wary. Yes men overall are more violent than women by several factors but don’t treat it as a free pass as there are nutters everywhere, some of course which can be of the female variety

Well, GTH, that was arguably the shortest flounce in MN history!

A bientot indeed!

Genetic, several people saw this woman and around 39 other similarly dressed woman walk in. They didn't see them burst in carrying knives. None of the other guests thought this woman represented a physical threat such that they had to get up and manhandle her out. Only Field claims to have done so.

The scenario you seem to have conjured up is of Field apparently thinking "Goodness, I can't assume that this woman who has come through airport-style security, on whom I can't see a weapon and who has nowhere to hide a weapon, is unarmed, because on one occasion two years ago an armed man who didn't go through security managed to attack someone inside the gates of Parliament." And it all falls down completely because no-one who saw her, not even Field, claims to have thought that.

And therefore all the people saying ‘all the people there knew she couldn’t be armed’ - well in Parliament it used to be the case that ‘all the people there knew people couldn’t be armed’
That was my point.

It's a fairly poor point though. No security system is 100% foolproof, but even putting that aside, the fact that there was no obvious way that she could have been carrying a concealed weapon, and that she was part of a group which had been carrying out a peaceful protest, it was highly unlikely she could have been armed. Nobody else seemed to fear that.

MPs get death threats all the time.

From Greenpeace activists?

@mummy2017

You claim the protester is "not innocent". What do you think she is guilty of?

You can act to prevent a breach of the peace if you anticipate it

Only by using reasonable force. The fact that the others were ejected without the use of this sort of force demonstrates that it wasn't.

And Field sort of spoilt that argument by telling the protester off for spoiling his lovely dinner.

@IcedPurple

I didn't flounce. I thought I had made all the points I could. I could see I was in a minority of not very many.

Anyway, It's good to be back. Before the thread gets full at 1000 posts, I was interested to see if I could find an offence the protesters might have committed, and it does look like Aggravated Trespass, or maybe just Disturbance of the Peace.

I am sure the powers that be would find something if they wanted, but "soft on crime" is Blair's legacy. Me, a suspended sentence. Hang them for a month. :) Mind how you go. :)

‘MPs get death threats all the time.

From Greenpeace activists?’

From many people. Men, women, left wing, right wing, brexiters, remainers, young,old. People dressed no doubt in posh clothes & people dressed in rags. There’s a reason why MPs get police linked alarms at their homes paid by tax payers. There’s a reason why some MPs have panic rooms, and steel reinforced doors for their kids rooms due to the death threats.
There’s a reason why they get CCTV cameras on their homes, why security costs are not published by MP but all lumped together.
Why their family get security Advice and their homes are flagged in police systems.
They get advice on how to have their address removed from search engines.
Maybe some of those threats are from Greenpeace activists? How do MPs know? Most death threats are anonymous.

*MPs get death threats all the time.

From Greenpeace activists?’

From many people.*

So, no known instance of a death threat to an MP from a Greenpeace activist, then.

There’s a reason why MPs get police linked alarms at their homes paid by tax payers. There’s a reason why some MPs have panic rooms, and steel reinforced doors for their kids rooms due to the death threats.
There’s a reason why they get CCTV cameras on their homes, why security costs are not published by MP but all lumped together.

Yes there is. But that reason is not Greenpeace activists.

The thing is, though, Gth1234, the protesters haven't been charged with anything. So you can't claim they're guilty of any offence. You don't even know if this woman was a trespasser.

Hahahahaha
Do you really think they publish statistics on MPs death threats?
Certainly the ones I’ve read were never reported anywhere public.

She had intent, therefore he is allowed to use force to stop her...

Yes, she had intent to hand out some leaflets and do a bit of shouting.

The degree of force he used was, imo, disproportionate to the risk she presented and therefore could constitute assault.

No, I don't think there are any statistics. However, I'm wondering how likely it is that Greenpeace activists are making credible death threats to MPs, such that would make Field have a reasonable fear that this woman was about to stab him with the steaknife in her handbag, or whatever the latest hypothetical here is.

There's a lot of emotional blackmail going on in this thread. Yes, there have been threats and isolated acts of violence against MPs, but violence against MPs is still pretty rare in the UK. And when it does occur, this violence is not coming from unarmed female Greenpeace activists.

The degree of force he used was, imo, disproportionate to the risk she presented and therefore could constitute assault.

I agree with this.

The MPs I know would either have ignored her, or engaged in conversation to steer her towards leaving.

But how does someone know what a persons intent is until they do it? What if on your deathbed after getting knifed in the chest you say oh well I thought she was going to hand out some leaflets?

I’m not against protest and people saying that it’s cool and people should be able to protest is bullshit. If it’s in a public area then fine but you can’t break into someone’s house when they’re asleep at night and say oh well I was just protesting. If they’re there univited then you’re entitled to be worried and defend yourself.

Maybe he was a prick. Maybe he didn’t really think she was a threat and went overboard. He could well be guilty of that but people piling on about rights to protest are really going overboard. Hope they offer equal support Tommy Robinson and his followers storming into a Mosque. It’s their right after all