Not to hire the best person?

[Undaunted77]

We are looking for an apprentice.
Candidate A is a second generation immigrant, eldest sibling in a large family living in inner city social housing, attended a notorious local comprehensive and got OK A levels. Is currently 3/4 through a year long paid internship at one of our competitors.

Candidate B comes from a middle class family, for a while was educated at private school, lives in suburbs, has had a lot of support & encouragement from parents. Is forecast to get better A levels than candidate A did. Has only just left school and has no job yet.

Both are good and very motivated candidates - but B’s scores in all the elements of the assessment centre were undeniably better than A’s, and in terms
of personality is probably a better fit. B also has no job at present whereas A is mid-internship.

Would we BU to offer the apprenticeship to A, on the grounds that the opportunity may be more transformative for A, and A has not enjoyed the same advantages as B?

AnAC12UCOinanOCG that is really depressing

This isn't just a job, it's also an apprenticeship.

Apprenticeships AND universities often give preference or offer more flexible entry to young people who are from disadvantaged/ low participation areas, so why shouldn't OP.

If A's school is a low performing school, then that us a valid reason to add points to their score.

But of course only hire if you genuinely believe they can do the job

So I think A is a better bet, tbh. Has demonstrated commitment, a bit of drive, by getting and doing the internship and has some experience.
B - doesn't yet have his A levels (do the better grades matter if the standard required is reached?) and no experience.
If I had to pick between 2 candidates generally I would say team fit is key so long as the person is right for the role. Are you sensing potential in A?

If I had to pick between 2 candidates generally I would say team fit is key

So Candidate B then

Hire both on three month trial jobshare then hire the best at the end of the three months

I'd be more inclined to assess either candidates "fit" to the organisation, rather than (necessarily) their background or prior experience (or lack of it). A may already hit that more than B, but only you know this.

Is this a thought experiment of sorts. I really can't get on with middle class virtue signallers.

Unless you are some kind of philanthropic organisation, you must go for the best candidate for the job - i.e. B.

B might get bored quickly or be keeping an eye open for other options. A might be motivated to stay.

What did you do OP?!

If you can't decide I'd do a trial day...

With both candidates...

Oliversmumsarmy yeah, it is depressing that children from middle class families will have many more career opportunities than poor children.

Oliversmumsarmy yeah, it is depressing that children from middle class families will have many more career opportunities than poor children

Not according to this thread.

YABU

You need to think of the needs of the business, not act like some kind of hero helping out the less fortunate

"We are cutting back on A LOT to afford private education for the children, including working long hours and living in a modest ex-council house. All of this is done precisely to get them most prepared for the working life ahead."

Massive eye roll. And what are you doing this for? So your children, when they grow up, also have the opportunity to live in a modest council house, work long hours, see little of their family, and cut back on everything so they can do the best for their children to "prepare them for the working life ahead"? And they will certainly have to do that because year upon year access to privilege is getting more and more restricted as everybody tries to do the best by their own children. You are not going to win. You are just doing to struggle in this rat wheel generation after generation. On the off-chance that you do "make it", it will be on the backs of those who do not.

Now, if you invested your energy into making the whole society better - fighting to overthrow this inhuman system of inequality that we have - then perhaps you would stand a chance. But so long as you are just taking care of your own and not looking at the system that system will continue to crush you and make sure that you keep "working long hours" as that is where they want you.

You are right, prepare your kids for the "working life" as this is what they are going to have.

This thread has been an eye opener

I am from an immigrant family, Dp is white British.

Up to now we put down Ds not being able to get a job or apprenticeship down to his age or the fact he hasn’t got his GCSE English, just taken the retake or because there might have been someone better qualified (he works very occasionally for someone we know so has never had to go through the interview process)

Ds hasn’t been able to get a job anywhere.

Dd left college and has more work than you could imagine. Even some jobs she is definitely not qualified for.

Ds takes after Dp in looks.
Dd takes after my side of the family. No way could you describe her as British.

This thread makes me wonder if Dd only gets so many jobs because of how she looks and Ds will struggle because of the colour of his skin

Oliver I can assure you as someone closer to the browner end of the rainbow that employers aren't falling over themselves to take pity on my ethnic background

OP.

Interesting that you are basing your opinions of candidate A on his (lack of) social capital rather than on the fact that he has experience, that he got himself a paid internship, and has pursued that.

I thought opportunities generally went to those with experience and initiative.

But you have overlooked this and are instead looking at him as a victim and talking up a candidate who you has not yet actually passed his A levels nor proven himself.

I am disgusted by this attitude.
B might have had great parental support, but they've also probably worked bloody hard for their results.
You've said they have done better in the tests and that their personality is a better fit.
You should hire them, no question about it.

@PissedOffProf

Now, if you invested your energy into making the whole society better - fighting to overthrow this inhuman system of inequality that we have - then perhaps you would stand a chance. But so long as you are just taking care of your own and not looking at the system that system will continue to crush you and make sure that you keep "working long hours" as that is where they want you.

Your post doesn't make sense. Everybody is doing the best for themselves and their children, trying to live a good life and raise good individuals. My children love their schools, I own my home, my family income is over £120k, so I am very happy with my life, thank you very much, as well as with the "state of society". But you are welcome to fight anything to your heart's content.

For future reference:
B’s scores in all the elements of the assessment centre were undeniably better than A’s, fine. Employ B
But
and in terms
of personality is probably a better fit be very wary of this! This should be a danger signal. We all gravitate to those like us and this causes lack of diversity. It’s better in the long run to fill the organisation with diverse personalities and backgrounds even if that doesn’t seem the easiest road in terms of new people “fitting in”.

PrettyBelle, nope, not all of us are just doing the best for ourselves and our children. Some of us also care about others and other people's children. And yes, I will continue fighting for a better society. Because we are a society and not just a bunch of individuals. I don't want to live in a world where I have to scrape and save in order to send my children to a private school because there are no decent free public schools (and be proud of my scraping on top of that!). I want every child to have access to top quality free education.

Oliversmumsarmy, or perhaps it's because your daughter is just better qualified.

If B is outscoring A in the assesments with no work experience ,despite A being 3/4 through a year long internship, the B obviously has more potential.

I work with apprenticeships and while they go through assessment centres, the focus is often very much on "potential" rather than being able to tick a box, and depending on the sector involved, it's also about bringing a wider diversity of candidates to the industry (race, social background, gender and age all being factors which might favour one candidate over another). I'd say if you see more potential in A and feel they'd respond more positively to the challenges of balancing work and study, then there's nothing wrong with employing them on their merits rather than their grades. And in the context of apprenticeships, if A has a positive reference from their internship that a
should hold more weight than a slight discrepancy in A level grades.