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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should men be allowed to "opt out" of parenthood?

999 replies

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 09:08

My friend has a child who was ultimately the result of a very casual, friends with benefits type situation. The father was immediately sure that he didn't want a baby and told her from the very beginning. He wasn't around and didn't help out for the first couple of years, but has now decided that he wants to have access to the child and start to build a relationship now he is older.

My friend doesn't trust him, doesn't like him, and is deeply hurt over all the things she has had to go through alone because of his previous lack of involvement and support. But she's worried that she is totally unable to prevent him from ever having access, and feels that he has put her in a horrible and stressful situation.

Which led us to think about this.

When a woman falls pregnant from a one night stand or casual-sex type scenario, she can choose whether to keep the baby, or go through an abortion or out the baby up for adoption. Thus ultimately "opting out" of parenthood.

A man in the same situation has no such right to opt out of parenthood. He has to accept the woman's decision and his life will be impacted by the woman's decision.

My friend believes that she was unrealistic during pregnancy. She firmly believed that the dad would "come round", that he'd see the baby and suddenly fall in love and want to be involved. But of course this didn't happen.

So we started to discuss, what if there was the option for a man to "opt out" of parenthood? It would, of course, have to be done very early on - before the baby was 1 month old, for example. Her idea is that this could be done by signing a legal document stating that he has no desire to be a part of the child's life in any way, will not ever be able to seek any type of access, and will not pay money. This move would have to be irreversible in order to be taken seriously. (Perhaps there could be some terms and conditions like the situation can be reversed but only with the mother's permission).

Now, i know a lot of women on Mumsnet like to say that if a man doesn't want a child then he shouldn't have sex or should use contraception. But I believe in total equality between the sexes and feel that this is unfair. Two people choose to have sex, two people choose whether or not to use contraception, but only one person can decide whether or not they will keep a child if an accident does happen.

I know so many people whose lives are made miserable by constantly battling men for money for their child, or by trying to encourage contact between their child and a man who just isn't interested.

Don't get me wrong - I think this is awful. But wouldn't it save the mother and the child both significant stress and heartache if they can live their lives without these battles? Surely knowing where you stand from the very start will stop all the disappointment and the emotional rollercoaster and stress that so many people experience.

And is it fair for a women to force a child (or the responsibilities that come from having a child, like maintainance) onto a man who knows immediately that he doesn't want a child?

My friend says that with hindsight, she just don't see how this current situation benefits anyone. Men can easily belittle women by claiming that they were "tricked" into having a baby. If there was this "opt out" system, they wouldn't be able to argue this!

The mother also wouldn't have to worry about a deadbeat dad who hasn't done anything for her/her child suddenly popping up deciding they now want to be in the child's life.

My friend says that looking back, although it seems harsh, knowing that this "opt out" system existed would his would actually have helped her. She'd have been much more prepared for single parenthood, much more prepared for being financially responsible for the baby by herself. She'd have been able to prepare better and not have the crushing blows and disappointment and feelings of rejection that come from his behaviour. She'd also not have to now worry about granting a man who is (now) a virtual stranger access to her child.

She thinks that if a man doesn't sign this before baby is month old, then he can't sign it at all, and will be fully responsible for the child in terms is maintainance and anything else, which should then be more strictly implemented (harsher punishments for not paying, for example).

(I thought maybe it would be better if the deadline for opting out was before baby's birth, but she says she still believes that some men will see their child at the birth and fall in love and therefore be given the chance to be involved.)

Of course there would have to be some regulations like if a women can prove that a baby was discussed or planned then the man can't opt out, for example.

What do the rest of you think? I'm really curious about this. On the one hand yes, if you don't want a baby then use contraception. But on the other hand, accidents happen and I can't help but agree with my friend that men should be allowed to opt out just as women can.

At first I thought this was a crazy idea but the more I think about it, the more I think it could help. The UK could issue MUCH stricter punishments to men who don't pay (because if they haven't opted out then they have no right at all, and no excuses, like they make now). It would in many ways protect the mother and child too.

Thoughts, anyone?

(Please don't kill me, I'm just curious to hear ideas from all sides, I'm not fully persuaded! Not that what I think really matters - and it won't happen anyway. But would it be better or worse for people if it did?)

OP posts:
Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 10:11

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I view my children as an absolute blessing (cringe I know, I hate that phrase, but it's the best way to describe how I feel). If I had to force their father to be involved in their life, then I'd be disgusted by him. Just horrified by him. I'd rather he had NOTHING to do with my children and I could move on with my life knowing that I love them with all my heart, my family love them with all their hearts, and they will grow up surrounded by love and support.

I wouldn't want to try and force anything from him and I wouldn't want to be put in this situation like my poor friend is - having to allow access of her child, who she has raised, paid for, parented and loved alone all this time, to a man who didn't even want the child to exist, and who she can't trust not to hurt, disappoint or let down the child in the future.

Isn't it better to not have a deadbeat dad around at all, then to give them the power to come and go as they please, wreaking havoc, causing pain, uprooting lives, and making the child feel disappointed and rejected all over again (maybe even over and over again?)

For those of you who think this is about men's rights - while I DO believe in equality between the sexes and always will, my main concern here is for the everyone involved, particularly the child and the mother, having seen what my friend is going through.

But again, I know this is a really tense subject which probably touches a lot of nerves so I understand why a lot of posters feel really strongly and angry about this, I really do. And I do recognise that as I'm not in this situation myself I should be understanding of the opinions and feelings of those who are, and I really do hope this thread hasn't upset anyone!

I was just really interested in others opinions and it seems like this is one of those things that nobody can agree on!

OP posts:
Rosemary46 · 20/06/2019 10:12

@JoxerGoesToStuttgart

It says an awful lot about a person’s emotional intelligence that they think this should be a legal option for men. Spend some time with abandoned children. See exactly how “consequence free” it is. Maybe feel embarrassed

Excellent point.

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 10:12

Women don't do the majority of childcare, don't put their careers on hold, don't sacrifice most of the rest of their life, don't earn less over a lifetime

Because they chose to. They make choices. Women have agency, they can decide whether or not to work all the hours god sends, or stay home with their children. Up to them.

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 20/06/2019 10:13

Is the best thing for a child really to insist a man is involved in their upbringing when he knows he doesn't want to be and/or won't be a good parent?

No the best thing is for men not to create children they don’t want. If only there was a way to prevent that happening...

BigRedLondonBus · 20/06/2019 10:13

Hmm I actually think men CAN opt out of parenthood. I know my ex certainly has, he doesn’t see our children or pay a penny (4 in total that I apparently tricked him into 4 times!) he has said he will never step up or be a dad and as he doesn’t work or claim any benefits cms can’t do anything. So for me my ex has opted out.

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 10:14

It says an awful lot about a person’s emotional intelligence that they think this should be a legal option for men. Spend some time with abandoned children. See exactly how “consequence free” it is.

The law doesn’t care about your feelings and emotions.

GraceSlicksRabbit · 20/06/2019 10:14

Haven’t RTFT but the problem is enforceability.
With an abortion there is no baby, the woman can’t go back in her decision to opt out. With a male opt out declaration he can still turn up, track down, stalk outside school, call the woman, approach the child as an adult and the only way to stop this is by getting a court order (unless legislation made it a criminal offence to breach your opt out declaration, but then you’d be putting an extra burden in the police to enfurece it).

Interesting idea but unworkable in practice

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 10:15

No the best thing is for men not to create children they don’t want. If only there was a way to prevent that happening...

Same goes for women. No one is forcing them into motherhood should they not wish it. Can’t say that about fatherhood.

codemonkey · 20/06/2019 10:16

Because they chose to. They make choices. Women have agency, they can decide whether or not to work all the hours god sends, or stay home with their children. Up to them

Do you honestly think the opportunities and choices available to men and women are identical? That we have complete parity and equality? Those feminists really need to wind their necks in, don't they?

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 10:16

"What you’re advocating for is for children who have no choice in being born to be deprived of half the financial support required to provide them with a healthy, safe, nourished upbinging."

My goodness! Absolutely not. This is heartbreaking to read. I actually felt that it might protect women and their children from being rejected by the sort of parents who WONT be there for them, who WONT support them, who WONT pay for them, who WONT love them or be there for them like they deserve. Protecting them from the sort of parents who will yo-yo in and out of their lives, wanting access and then buggering off again leaving them heartbroken and feeling rejected. Protecting mothers who have been there since day 1 from being unable to prevent a virtual stranger from entering their child's life and then leaving again, hurting them all over again, or having a half-arsed relationship that only causes mother and child more pain.

OP posts:
JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 20/06/2019 10:16

Women have agency, they can decide whether or not to work all the hours god sends, or stay home with their children. Up to them.

😂😂😂

If I “stay at home” we don’t eat, we lose our home, we are on the streets.

Blobby10 · 20/06/2019 10:18

Someone I know has done this - she got pregnant, they weren't a formal couple and didn't want to be, he didn't want the baby and signed a document to that effect. She has never gone after him for money and he has never met his child. Almost like a sperm donor. I feel sorry for his parents though - they have a grandchild that they will never know!

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 10:18

GraceSlicksRabbit I hadn't even thought of that! The potential for stalking/harassment. That's a really good point and really scary. I suppose this whole idea could just cause more pain and stress to the mother and child and actually add in fear too... Really good point.

OP posts:
Teddybear45 · 20/06/2019 10:18

If the man’s name is not on the birth certificate then I believe he (or the woman) needs to go through courts to obtain parental rights. If a man’s name is on the birth certificate then it is correctly assumed he was aware of the pregnancy and wanted to be involved. A lot of women like to play the victim in the latter situation (often after finding a new partner); so if the man’s name is on your friend’s kid’s bc, then I would take anything she says with a pinch of saltz

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 10:19

Do you honestly think the opportunities and choices available to men and women are identical? That we have complete parity and equality? Those feminists really need to wind their necks in, don't they?

Yes Grin

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 10:19

Blobby10 wow! Does it work for them - are they all happy with this arrangement?

OP posts:
IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 10:19

If I “stay at home” we don’t eat, we lose our home, we are on the streets

So you made choices, good for you.

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 20/06/2019 10:20

In that case jemima youre doing it arse-about-face. You should be making it far more uncomfortable for men who create children they don’t want and will dick about. Not easier for them to walk away (who, in your theoretical world, pays for theses children when their fathers won’t? Where does the money come from?) you need to make the reality of creating a child you don’t want so horrific that men make 100% sure they aren’t impregnating any women.

SignedUpJust4This · 20/06/2019 10:21

Isabella do you really think all women can choose to either work or be SAHM? In my experience they often have no choice in the matter unless married to someone wealthy. And yes it has to be marriage if the woman wants any sort of pension for her efforts.

Bluestitch · 20/06/2019 10:22

The law doesn’t care about your feelings and emotions.

This whole thread is about changing the law to protect the feelings of men though. And actually the law does care about the feelings and emotions of the children involved.

beachysandy81 · 20/06/2019 10:22

Once a baby is born both parents are responsible. Opt out should not an option as both parents are responsible financially for a child they bring into the world.

What happens if a couple are in love and plan a baby together. Then things go wrong romantically for the couple during pregnancy, the baby is born and the man opts out?

Or a man opts out and the child manages to get in touch when they are older, say 12, but the man is not allowed to contact child even though at this point he would like contact. The child would then feel rejected twice.

RogersVideo · 20/06/2019 10:23

The purpose of sex is to create babies. We do our best to avoid this outcome, but no contraception is 100%, not even some forms of sterilisation. So a baby is always a possible outcome when you have sex. You have sex and take the risk, you should be prepared to care for any resulting child. I will certainly be telling my children this when they are older.

Women do have another step, as the fetus lives in her body, but let's not make light of how hard it can be emotionally to choose abortion.

adaline · 20/06/2019 10:23

Women have agency, they can decide whether or not to work all the hours god sends, or stay home with their children. Up to them

So if the father isn't involved for whatever reason, who is going to pay for all these women to stay at home and not work? Single parents have to work - under UC single parents are expected to find a job when their youngest child turns three.

WitsEnding · 20/06/2019 10:23

It's about the financial rights of the child, not the parents. It should be possible for the father to opt out of parenting activities and many do.

Don't both parents have to give up a child for adoption? If the father wanted to raise it, wouldn't the mother be liable for maintenance?

The inequality you are challenging is a woman's right to choose. If we start giving men some say in that decision (which is whether both will be parents) it could easily lead to the loss of that right.

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 10:23

who, in your theoretical world, pays for theses children when their fathers won’t? Where does the money come from?

The state. I’ve made the decision to have a baby, the father didn’t want it, but I made the decision to go ahead. But now I need financial help from everyone else.

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