AIBU to ask for advice for daughters eating

[Booksandworms]

I have posted before under another user name, but am still desperate.

I’m at my wits end with my 4 year old dd, and her complete and utter obsession with food.

This has been an ongoing issue since weaning, so certainly not a phase.
From the moment she wakes up in the morning, the entire day revolves around food. As soon as she has opened her eyes she needs breakfast (1 slice of toast, scrambled egg and avocado with milk...or 2 weetabix) No less than 30 minutes later she starts asking about a snack. This talking/whinging will continue non stop for 2 hours or so until she has a snack (fruit and breadsticks usually) and then it’s continuously asking about lunch until lunch time etc until bedtime. Sometimes it also involves her yelling, hitting, kicking, pulling hair to try and get you to get food. She never recognises that she’s full and will eat and eat and eat.

She gets plenty of attention, and no matter what we do to try and distract, it does not work. She goes to nursery 2 days a week where the staff have commented on her eating.

This happens every day. It’s relentless and driving me insane.
I have taken her to the doctors to make sure there were no medical causes that were causing her to be hungry, but there are not. We’ve made sure she is also not thirsty.

We have tried:

Getting a picture schedule to show her when eating times are.

Letting her control how much and when she eats - resulting in continuous bloating, stomach aches and vomiting (yet will still want more)

Showing on a clock eating times.

Ignoring the requests, which results in continuous yelling and hurting.

We’re lost and feeling miserable and desperate. Does anybody have any similar experiences or advice?

If she is eating to the point of making herself vomit then I think either she isn’t capable of linking the over eating to the discomfort, (ie she just doesn’t make the cognitive connection, between cause and effect) or that the eating is of some form of self regulatory behaviour, satisfying some other (not directly food or hunger based) need. Does she exhibit any other unusual behaviours?

My 3 year old son is always asking for food.

He has eaten this so far today
2 weetabix
Marmite on toast
Raisins
Satsuma
Ham and cheese wrap
Chocolate biscuit
bag of mini cheddars

He’ll have more fruit later, spag Bol for dinner and yoghurt for pudding.

He would easily eat what your daughter ate on a Sunday and ask for more food.

He will cry for me to get out of bed at 6am and get him breakfast!

I take it as pretty standard 3 year old behaviour.

I agree that OP needs to reduce the sugar and carbs and add in more protein and fat. Personally I am not satiated after a pasta meal, fruit or some breadsticks.

I'm another one who's thinks it's Prader Willi Syndrome, my child's friend has this and it sounds exactly the same.

"The GP did mention prader willi syndrome as something that causes food obsessions, but said that she would also have other symptoms if that was the the case." Not necessarily.

PW as many conditions has a "spectrum" factor, not every sufferer presents the same and I very much doubt your GP is an expert in the field they're rarely experts in any field.

Unfortunately gp's are discouraged financially from making specialist referrals. So they're often reluctant to do so.

"Prader Willi comes with a lot of learning difficulties and other symptoms." Not always.

Thank you for all advice.

There's a lot to think about, and will be trying out a few things.

Sorry OP no answers but sounds like me. I don't feel full up unless I have eaten too much. In order not to put weight on I have to stop eating while I am still hungry. I used to cry for food as a kid as well.

I did think PWS immediately but because you'd said your DD had had tests done I assumed it had been ruled out. Obviously it hasn't been and it needs to be looked at.

Two things, though. PWS babies are floppy and difficult to feed to start with. Was your DD like that?

And - PWS people very rarely vomit. It is something that parents of children with this syndrome have to vigilant about because serious acute abdominal issues are sometimes overlooked if the patient isn't vomiting.

Many, many PWS people have symptoms similar to ASD people. Not all, but a good many.

Does your daughter break into cupboards/the fridge in order to get food? Does she eat non-food items (cat litter, toilet rolls) if she cannot get food? These are pointers.

I do hope you get some answers, OP. It must be so difficult for you.

That was one day. It's a reasonably typical day but it depends on what we're doing. His dinner is usually more protein heavy, and he often has a ham sandwich. You've made me think though. I could do something like eggs for breakfast on non-work days.
On work days he's fed a balanced diet at nursery

@Lostmyunicorn I don't think her behaviour is otherwise too abnormal.
She's funny, talkative, loves to make people laugh, loves to play, very imaginative.

However, I would say she is quite an anxious child. Doesn't very much like new situations, or interacting with other children... But, obviously this isn't happening every day and this has been happening for such a long time.

Ffs people, you can't keyboard diagnose Prader Willi syndrome based on the child being hungry. PWS has an extensive range of symptoms and it's not so rare that a gp is likely to have missed even investigating it.

OP it sounds like your plan to talk to your gp is a good one. Referral to an NHS dietitian might be useful?

My dd is also like this.

I give her a lot of filling foods like avocado, egg, cheese and try to minimise carbs as I think they make her hungrier !!!

Dd does seem to like chewing (sensory issue?) and I give her a lot of cucumber, carrot, etc.

I also distract her a lot and educate her about meal times , snack times , which is easier now she is at school full time.

We also have two older children so she can follow their patterns a bit.

My dd does border overweight but to be fair she is also quite active and I obviously really encourage physical activity, both organised activities and general playing, trampoline, walking, bike riding etc

I wish people wouldn't just chuck Prader-Willi syndrome around like this, as if it were just 'Hungry Child Syndrome'

Its actually a very serious genetic condition, and carries with it a host of other symptoms, including poor muscle tone, distinctive physical and facial characteristics and significant intellectual disability.

If she had this syndrome, it would certainly have been spotted before now.

ah, x post with @MotherForkinShirtBalls

Definitely see the GP again. I would suggest you keep a food diary so they can see how much she eats on a daily basis. They may not be understanding the severity of the amount she eats.
I do hope you get this sorted OP

You've said it's been going on for some time but I do think it might be worth the GP ruling out type one diabetes as polyphagia (excessive hunger) alongside normal weight is one of the symptoms.

@CatOnASwing and @MotherForkinShirtBalls these type of threads always have pw syndrome thrown about. I don't think people realize it's a serious genetic condition that comes with other disabilities.

Something is going on. The hunger that cannot be satisfied, wanting more despite being sick, temper tantrums and harming others or self-harming to get food.. this isn't normal behaviour. You need a paediatric referral. The GP might think nothing is wrong but clearly your daughter is unhappy and this is affecting your family life.

I think it's worth getting further medical tests done, is she normal height and weight?

They should check her thyroid and glucose levels if nothing else.

@Girliefriendlikescake she’s slightly on the shorter side, we’re a short family. Her weight is normal, but feel certain that she wouldn’t be if we didn’t stop her.

Could be an MC4R deficiency, which is a gene mutation that switches off the ‘full’ feeling and often leads to obesity. Worth asking the GP to look again and refer her on x

The second you mentioned the stuffing (eating and eating and not recognising when full) I immediately thought aspie girl. It was a major red flag for a friend's DD who now has a diagnosis of ASD. She is funny, lovely and chatty too, also anxious and awkward.

@booksandworms sorry I didn't get back to you earlier, if you think it could be sensory seeking then there are lots of things you could try to either rule this out or confirm it, it could also go hand in hand with not registering feeling full. One thing you could try is offering her a chewy chew, you can easily get these on Amazon and they are specially for children who need to chew. You could also try and give her chewy foods that take her longer to eat and so would be more satisfying if it is a sensory need, so foods like carrots, nuts or dried fruit. If these seems to help then I would talk to your health visitor about your suspicion and they may be able to sort out an OT referral. I do also agree with pp that adding even more protein to her diet may help. My ds needs a high protein diet and what you have listed wouldn't have half the protein he needs! I know it sounds counter intuitive when you're worried about the amount they eat but our dietitian adviced that all snacks should be high fat as well as high protein, so full fat cheese, yoghurt, eggs, meat, nuts. So for example, if you're giving her bread sticks give her some cheese or peanut butter with them, or some books eggs with mayo. Brazil nuts are also great snacks.

It really does sound like you need some real life support with this as there is obviously something so follow your gut and keep nagging the drs until you get some help!