AIBU to ask for advice for daughters eating

[Booksandworms]

I have posted before under another user name, but am still desperate.

I’m at my wits end with my 4 year old dd, and her complete and utter obsession with food.

This has been an ongoing issue since weaning, so certainly not a phase.
From the moment she wakes up in the morning, the entire day revolves around food. As soon as she has opened her eyes she needs breakfast (1 slice of toast, scrambled egg and avocado with milk...or 2 weetabix) No less than 30 minutes later she starts asking about a snack. This talking/whinging will continue non stop for 2 hours or so until she has a snack (fruit and breadsticks usually) and then it’s continuously asking about lunch until lunch time etc until bedtime. Sometimes it also involves her yelling, hitting, kicking, pulling hair to try and get you to get food. She never recognises that she’s full and will eat and eat and eat.

She gets plenty of attention, and no matter what we do to try and distract, it does not work. She goes to nursery 2 days a week where the staff have commented on her eating.

This happens every day. It’s relentless and driving me insane.
I have taken her to the doctors to make sure there were no medical causes that were causing her to be hungry, but there are not. We’ve made sure she is also not thirsty.

We have tried:

Getting a picture schedule to show her when eating times are.

Letting her control how much and when she eats - resulting in continuous bloating, stomach aches and vomiting (yet will still want more)

Showing on a clock eating times.

Ignoring the requests, which results in continuous yelling and hurting.

We’re lost and feeling miserable and desperate. Does anybody have any similar experiences or advice?

@bringthethunder We have tried this. We put her snacks in a bowl, and let her decide when she wanted them, hoping it may make her feel in control - she ate them all straight away, and just continued to whinge all day for lunch and dinner. We tried for a while hoping she would learn, but never did.

Even on days full of protein, she does not stop. For example, on the weekend she had scrambled egg on toast for breakfast, a banana and breadsticks for snack and then a kids chicken roast dinner out at a pub followed by an apple. On the way back in the car, she was shouting how she wanted a snack.

This woman has been on a massive journey with her daughter.

I won't say she has answers but may have routes for you to do some thinking.
nursenaomi.com/2018/02/20/cannabis-oil-huge-successes-pharmaceutical-progress-massive-gratitude-blog/

@booksandworms That does sound extreme indeed. I'm not being facetious when I say that if I had just for instance, I am in no way comparing a pet who was incessantly hungry in such a manner, I would treat them for worms. Is there any possibility that your child has a condition whereby she is not getting all the nutrients she requires from her food and is therefore always hungry? I realise you mentioned the you did visit the GP but I can imagine they would easily dismiss this without really investigating it too much. Perhaps you should request to be referred to a dietician/child therapist? I can imagine that if it isn't resolved fairly soon that it could grow arms and legs and become a much bigger problem when she starts attending school and is not as actively supervised about her intake.

This doesn't sound quite right sorry OP. Back go GP I would go.

Others have mentioned and I agree it sounds like prader willi
syndrome.

Cut right down on carbs and give lots of fruit and veg with protein. Perhaps the carbs are causing blood sugar highs and lows.

She didn’t have any tests at doctors, they just said as she had no other symptoms that they didn’t believe the to be any medical cause and just make sure she wasn’t over fed

I agree with what someone else on here said. I'd go back and see if they'll do tests for PWS (Prader willi syndrome) as the no concept of feeling full and the upset it's causing her can be symptoms of that.
I'd also definitely try the lots of protein option.

Google Prada Willi syndrome, as a PP has said. I was going to suggest no snacks at all to try to regulate eating into meal times only, but I think what you’re describing as far beyond that.

OP before you go back to the doctor I would suggest you get a letter from nursery documenting what they have observed. If you are backed up by experienced professionals saying the same thing, it will be harder for them to justify fobbing you off.

Sorry it’s prader willi - I used to go school with a girl who had this. Food needed to be locked away as she had an insatiable appetite- sorry OP it’s probably not what you want to hear.

Camhs would not be able to help with this- she needs a referral to paediatrician and possible occupational therapy to see if there’s a sensory element.

Outrageous that they've done no tests!

What comes to my mind is prader Willi syndrome, diabetes or other endocrine disorders many of which can be tested for with blood tests and certainly what you're saying warrants a referral to an endocrinologist.

Back to gp with a full food diary including amounts not just what she's eaten. Because I suspect the calorie levels are quite high. Hopefully if they see it in black and white it's harder to dismiss you.

Unfortunately my experience and that of many others with children with chronic conditions or disabilities know all too well how hard it is to get heard. You have to be persistent - and yes get written evidence/support from the nursery too. They are comparing her to other children and have the experience of many other children so can't be accused of not knowing norms.

The GP did mention prader willi syndrome as something that causes food obsessions, but said that she would also have other symptoms if that was the the case.

But I will definitely be returning to the GP, and will ask for tests.

How is the rest of her health?
Ds always ate like a horse. I’m not joking when I say at 4 he was eating adult meals. Only mentioned it here once cause I was shot down in flames but it is true.
He was a skinny kid, tall but skinny so I wasn’t bothered and fed him like another adult.

He also had tonsillitis 3 or 4 times a year and after many battles got his tonsils out at 7. The surgeon was amazed he could swallow never mind anything else and he had the op when he wasn’t ill.

In the 3 months after the op he piled on weight because we didn’t change eating habits. Once I worked out that he wasn’t fighting a constant infection and adjusted his food wee sorted it out.

He eats less at 9 than he did at 5. But from the food issue alone I’d have never worked it out.

It definitely sounds like prada willi.

I'd put her on a keto diet and see if that makes any difference.

@Iamtheworst her health is generally fine. Rarely ill, and no other signs of anything else.

@Booksandworms it sounds really hard work and exhausting. My 2 year old goes through phases of this and it drives me INSANE so I can't imagine it day to day. It sounds like you're doing a fantastic job of managing it. I'd just like to say as a nurse theres lots of symptoms that go along with insatiable appetite for Prader-Willi so it doesn't surprise me your GP didn't refer you on the basis of one symptom. It wouldn't surprise me if it was more of a behavioural pattern so CAMHS etc might be useful. Sending lots of love I can imagine its relentless

Prader Willi comes with a lot of learning difficulties and other symptoms.

DS grazes a lot and will eat a lot at breakfast, reasonable amount at lunch and dinner and snacks in between. He's 3+9

This is what he ate on one day this week.

Breakfast (over 1-2 hours)
weetabix with a few Cheerios and shreddies on top, semi skimmed milk
Banana
Apple
Plate of chopped fruit

Snack
2 rich tea biscuits

Lunch
Sandwich dairy Lea, 2 slices of bread
Packet of crisps

Snack
Plate of fruit
3 breadsticks

Dinner
3 fishfingers
1 potato waffle
Peas
Sweet corn
Fromage Frais x 2

Snack
Aldi fruit bar

Not all days are like this. He doesn't get crisps every day, and his dinner is usually less processed. He's tall and heavy but in proportion.

I think you need to make a food diary and write everything down with quantities. You could also make a note of the times she's asking for food too.

Hi OP

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prader–Willi_syndrome

I’d do your own research because GPS don’t know everything about these tho g soft hand: it’s like when they tell people their hundred can’t possibly have autism because they ‘make eye contact’- not necessarily the case

Another one saying get her tested for Prader-Willi syndrome. A quick look on the nhs website will tell you that another symptom is stubbornness and tantrums (in addition to excessive hunger and overeating).
Go back to GP and push for help. I can’t believe they haven’t run any actual tests before.

This definityear isn't right. I was thinking along the lines of prader willi syndrome too. My friend has a child with aspergers who does this and is now seriously overweight. She needs a referral to a paediatrivial.

Fruit and breadsticks aren’t particularly filling. Pasta is particularly filling.

Up the protein and fat content of her meals.
2 eggs scrambled/boiled and mashed with butter and wholemeal toast for breakfast plus full fat milk to drink and some fruit if still hungry after.
Snack of cheese cubes/peanut butter on toast/ full fat Greek yoghurt plus fruit.
Chicken/tuna/cheese with chopped peppers/carrots/cucumber and hummus or guacamole as I see she likes avocado plus pita bread for lunch.
High fat and protein dinner.

Give water and full fat milk to drink.

I think you still need to look at the carbs and sugars there..

"scrambled egg on toast for breakfast, a banana and breadsticks for snack and then a kids chicken roast dinner out at a pub followed by an apple..."

So your protein sources there are.. eggs... chicken.

Carb sources - bread, breadsticks, banana, presumably potatos and possibly yorkshire pudding in the roast dinner, maybe parsnips too?

Sugar sources - bread, banana, apple, veg in the roast dinner.

The carbs and sugar there far out weigh the protein - I know as a type 2 diabetic who has to measure BG twice a day, I'd be absolutely sky high on that! That would then cause crashes that would make me feel both whingey/grumpy AND ravenously hungry.

@fuckwitseverywhere your menu too is absolutely stuffed with carbs and sugars - out of that entire days menu the only significant protein content is the dairylea (not a lot) and the fish fingers.

If your kid is the right weight/height/active etc then that might not be a problem, but potentially whilst most of that diet sheet looks like ok food, the balance would certainly cause me sky high BG levels and a never ending hunger.

Im not saying for a second that growing kids should not have carbs, fruits etc... they should, I don't think extreme restrictive diets for kids are a good idea at all!

But offering MUCH more protein, and limited carbs/sugars definitely ought to be tried first!

The tantrums and everything seems like beyond hunger. Everyone gets hungry but it's unusual to be so extreme about it. I'd suggest going back to the GP too.

Just as an aside though - I see she eats a good amount of fruit. Fruit makes me hungry. As in, if I have a banana or apple it will increase my hunger. No idea why, other people in my family have the same. I'm generally hungry 30 mins after eating unless I've eaten a very fatty meal, which means my fat intake is undesirable.

I was like this as a child and it has become a problem as an adult because- well because i can eat when i want and find myself eating ALL DAY! i am not, nor ever have been over weight though, size 6-8 but i eat loads and loads. especially sweets now i can buy them myself. and my teeth are absolutely shot. i actually cannot help myself. its similar to having a cigarrette. but i used to chain smoke before i quit too.

my mum is the same so she probably has a problem with addiction? i know i definitely do

i suppose you could try unsweetened porridge for breakfast and other bland food for lunch and dinner. when i try too curb my problem this is what i do. but i crave and give into myself.

i completely understand though because all i ever think about is food

maybe also try little and often.
like 3 carrot sticks... wait 20 mins and give her another 3?

sounds like youre doing a good job but me and dh have so many arguments about how much i eat and if we go and do a big shop i eat all the treats myself. really tricky and quite embarrassing actually