AIBU about school imposing new sanctions?

[BumbleBeef30]

Today DC came home and said they had assemblies today in which they were told about new sanctions for issues such as having your shirt untucked or missing equipment, e.g. a purple pen.

I don’t mind it when a school has a sudden outbreak of enforcing uniform issues or ensuring all children have the right equipment using the original sanctions because, no matter how silly I may think it is to give a child a detention at break for a missing pen, those are the rules which were on the home-school agreement and I signed up to it.

I didn’t sign up to these new sanctions, which seem overly harsh and likely to punish only those children whose parents can not afford to replace items which break or go missing unexpectedly.

An occurrence of missing a pen now gets you sent to detention for three lessons; two occurrences get you isolation for three lessons; three occurrences get you sent to isolation for a whole day; and four occurrences earn you a fixed term exclusion. Theoretically a child could go to school on Monday without a pen and be excluded by Wednesday.

Before anyone says, I know pens are cheap and fairly easy to replace, but some people are forced to live hand to mouth at the moment, and the same new sanctions apply if you don’t have exactly the right type of shoes. Whereas before it might be a phone call to parents reminding them that shoes need to be lace-up, now it’s an immediate detention followed by isolation.

What’s more is that the school hasn’t sent home any information to parents, apart from an email containing the letter they give all new Year 7s about the standards they expect. No mention of sanctions at all - just a basic “we want every child to succeed and because of this we expect skirts to be knee length, all students to have the correct equipment, etc”.

AIBU to wonder what the fuck is going on at that school? Can schools just change sanctions whenever they feel like it? And should they be introducing these new, much harsher sanctions without letting parents know about them?

www.amazon.co.uk/PURPLE-MICRON-BALLPOINT-MEDIUM-BIROS/dp/B01D34EBKE/ref=asc_df_B01D34EBKE/?hvlocphy=1006622&linkCode=df0&hvptwo&psc=1&hvnetw=g&hvadid=309883060481&hvpone&hvlocint&hvpos=1o2&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl&hvqmt&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&hvtargid=pla-698414330770&hvrand=1147474600764024149

I'm going to get 30 purple pens now... just because.

*NCforpoo

Quote from deputy head teacher “there is nothing to do a risk assessment on” even though there were hundreds of children being housed in various class rooms without up to date registers. “We don’t have to write a policy down” giving parents nothing to refer back to. And this from the head of year “we can do what we want”.

Thanks NC!

Our school has a behaviour policy on the website but it has appendices containing details of how it's applied which aren't visible to parents. I assume for the same reason that they don't want parents saying "But it doesn't say on the behaviour policy that my child can't do a moony in maths etc" I think the kids are told how it works. Eg. 5 behaviour points = a detention etc

Cordyline1
The 'the rule and expectation is entirely clear to any reasonable person but now my child has not met expectations I shall argue they technically haven't broken the rule' type.

E.g. Mrs Blogs gave DC a detention for tapping a pencil, but he wasn't tapping a pencil. That was their mate and my DC just told them to stop it. I think it's hugely unfair that my child has been sanctioned for trying to get on with their work.'

Reality: both students were repeatedly disruptive, messing around with equipment and doing the loud, disruptive 'yeah Timmy... shut up Jess...' fake protests whilst laughing and thinking it's hilarious. They were both sanctioned for lesson disruption but one parent is going to argue that their DC is exempt because the teacher falsely thought one tiny detail in a whole situation was their DC.

Or
Uniform - plain black school trousers, no jeans, no baggy or skinny trousers

Parent: nobody said my child couldn't wear a pair of 7/8 ankle grazer trousers, the rule says plain trousers and they're plain.

Even though they are fashion trousers, not school trousers and anyone with an ounce of sense knows that (and knows the parent who deliberately pretends not to know what school trousers are is a total idiot).

School them publishes a highly prescriptive uniform which (understandably to a point) pisses off reasomable parents who apply common sense, because staff are wasting huge amounts of time with idiots who choose to search for loopholes or reasons why basic rules don't apply.

Yes, my dcs' school have a particular skirt and trouser style which is the only one allowed for girls. (Boys can wear school trousers in the right colour.) I presume this is because in the past girls have tended to push it more with skin tight clothes whereas the boys haven't. I have girls but find it much easier having one style that comes in a range of sizes and lengths than having to keep up with the latest fashions as happened when i was at school and you could choose the style.

Whereas I have a real personal issue with single supply very prescriptive uniforms. I'd much prefer everyone to be able to buy appropriate non fashion trousers that they feel good in, shirts that fit well etc.

But I have a lot of sympathy with schools that have to go down that route due to some people's inability to apply the finest amount of common sense (and it's usually those idiots who are in the papers on September 3rd with their compo sad faces on about how their child was sent home for not wearing the correct uniform because idiot parent spent their money on things not in the very very prescriptive uniform policy).

People i went to school with who are in their 40s still remember never being able to afford whatever skirt was fashionable that year. So that's another thing to think about. Ours can be handed down easily as the style never changes

Fortunately the skirts and trousers are mass produced plain schoolwear shop ones so aren't expensive. I wouldn't be so keen if they were £30+ kilts in a design only produced for one school!

I can get on side with mass produced and affordable. The £30 kilts less so.

I like the idea of wear any sensible non fashion trousers, but it only works if school leaderships 're willing to back the policy and stop uniform being a fashion parade.

I can still remember not being able to wear skousers (the skirt/trouser thing) when some of my friends were. They also had the ludicrous late 90s/00s platform shoes for school and my mum (correctly in hindsight) wouldn 't let me have them. Going to a school that followed a policy properly would have stopped me feeling self conscious. Then I changed school somewhere with a simple but enforced uniform and it was better.

just realised this might be my local secondary. The school on the hill. Sudden change in policy. All over Facebook. They have just regigged all the classes / tutor groups and moved people into different classes from their friends. With only a few weeks left of term? What’s the point except to piss off the students? Students coming out crying. It’s all come out on Facebook today.

Seems that parents had one day’s warning about the changes.

What is most upsetting is that although there are a lot of angry parents there are lots who think it’s a good idea. This shit won’t be challenged until all parents and students stand together against power crazed academies / heads which will never happen.

So sad seeing all these happy, confident but not arrogant year 6s at the local primaries with their supportive, sensible school policies and knowing they will be different, unhappy and broken students in a year’s time . I wonder what the primary teachers thing of it all.

I'm pretty sure calling them broken is a bit over the top.

Sadly schools get forced into prescribing certain trousers as some kids (boys included) wear "fashion" styles, which don't meet the criteria set of plain, loose fitting office style. Girls wearing really short skirts (to the point where I've seen arse cheek hanging out).

And yes, it's crap. Believe me, schools would far, far rather deal with other things but if they cannot follow simple guidelines on wearing straight leg black trousers then a one step solution takes HOURS of time wasted away from pastoral staff who have far more important shit to deal with.

I’m pretty sure the crying children I saw today looked broken. Awful and such a contrast to the happy well behaved year 6 children I see every day.

DC are anxious and worried about what the day is going to bring. This is not a happy school where children are thriving.

After school detention has also increased from an hour to almost two hours.

I really don’t buy the argument that schools would rather do other things than uniform. Individual teachers sure. But SLT, heads and academies? They make the rules. In that case don’t police it, let them take their blazers off and leave the rest to it. Have a loose uniform policy. Then get on with teaching.

Arse hanging out of skirts I get (sort of).

Can someone please explain to me what is wrong with fashion trousers?

To be honest BumbleBeef, while you have parents and teachers actually thinking these sanctions and ‘zero tolerance’ are a good idea then I can’t see things improving.

I’m teaching a course next week. I fully expect people to arrive late, to talk, to forget their pens and to arrive in ripped jeans. I also fully expect them to be very nice people and we will get there in the end with no problems. If we do have problems then I’ll deal with them but I tend to find not treating people like they are in prison is a good first step.

Not read the full thread, but ime failing schools spend more time worrying about uniform.

DisorganisedOrganiser
Because it very much becomes haves and have nots.
My mother's refusal to even entertain getting anything than unflattering trousers made me feel self conscious and awkward.

Then there's people who can't afford to update their school trousers based on what is in fashion (so you get some kids wearing uncool old trousers which makes them stand out).
Then add in the usual 'they're not leggings, they're treggings' to justify sending their offspring to school in leggings so tight we all subjected to camel toe and the crease under their bum.

There are many options of smart black trousers that are full length, not wide leg, not super skinny for people to be able to get a pair for school.

There's no way to remove all social markers but not having every element of the uniform subject to trends is common sense.

Lola, I can see that. As long as different options are available I’d be fine with that.

At my son’s school the thing they’re strict on is forgetting PE kit. That I understand because even back in my day that was a classic way of skiving.

Otherwise I can’t help but wonder if the insistence on all these stupid rules and sanctions that seem to be prevalent in English schools is perhaps to try and deflect attention from the fact that the education they provide isn’t very good.

Whose attention would it deflect?

*Disorganisedorganiser

Yes, children who haven’t had a single negative point all year, now more worried about sanctions than learning. Very sad. Hope many people are officially complaining as it will be the only way to get the school to take notice.

Cordyline, well it seems to deflect the attention of:-
Ofsted as they seem so focused on consistency and uniform even if that means ridiculous coloured pens
Some parents who actually think Ofsted reports matter and/ or want these super strict schools
Children who are so terrified of getting through each day they don’t have the headspace to worry about results until it’s too late.

Just, I have complained to a MAT Trust before with no effect as did many parents. Sadly although I do think people should complain as a first step, it doesn’t seem to work. What is needed is for parents to stand together and say they won’t take this. That requires critical thinking and learning how to make a stand which many adults lack and which our children are not being taught in schools.

*disorganised
I agree. We have lodged an official complaint as so to go through to appropriate procedure and will take this further. We have requested official numbers of children put in RRD this week but have not been given an answer. Children are saying there were about 600 on tue, although I assume that will be incorrect, it sounds like we are talking significant numbers. A school run by fear is not an environment for learning. A school which won’t give parents full information to avoid challenges is not a school which will encourage critical thinking.