AIBU about school imposing new sanctions?

[BumbleBeef30]

Today DC came home and said they had assemblies today in which they were told about new sanctions for issues such as having your shirt untucked or missing equipment, e.g. a purple pen.

I don’t mind it when a school has a sudden outbreak of enforcing uniform issues or ensuring all children have the right equipment using the original sanctions because, no matter how silly I may think it is to give a child a detention at break for a missing pen, those are the rules which were on the home-school agreement and I signed up to it.

I didn’t sign up to these new sanctions, which seem overly harsh and likely to punish only those children whose parents can not afford to replace items which break or go missing unexpectedly.

An occurrence of missing a pen now gets you sent to detention for three lessons; two occurrences get you isolation for three lessons; three occurrences get you sent to isolation for a whole day; and four occurrences earn you a fixed term exclusion. Theoretically a child could go to school on Monday without a pen and be excluded by Wednesday.

Before anyone says, I know pens are cheap and fairly easy to replace, but some people are forced to live hand to mouth at the moment, and the same new sanctions apply if you don’t have exactly the right type of shoes. Whereas before it might be a phone call to parents reminding them that shoes need to be lace-up, now it’s an immediate detention followed by isolation.

What’s more is that the school hasn’t sent home any information to parents, apart from an email containing the letter they give all new Year 7s about the standards they expect. No mention of sanctions at all - just a basic “we want every child to succeed and because of this we expect skirts to be knee length, all students to have the correct equipment, etc”.

AIBU to wonder what the fuck is going on at that school? Can schools just change sanctions whenever they feel like it? And should they be introducing these new, much harsher sanctions without letting parents know about them?

No, you’re arguing that if the school decides to isolate or exclude kids for not bringing a purple pen, parents should just get on with it and not challenge the ridiculous rule and the disproportionate sanction.

Not quite. I understand why this particular rule would receive pushback. However, given that every rule is likely - in the current climate - to receive pushback, I also don’t blame the HT if he/she ignores it.

So either:

1. these sanctions are proportionate and a good way of managing behaviour and discipline (I don't agree); or

2. Behaviour and discipline have deteriorated and something needs to be done. These sanctions are something (and easier to do than alternatives that I venture would be hard but might work in the longer term) so in line with the philosophical error, they get done; or

3. I've seen relatively arbitrary requirements and sanctions introduced usually by new Heads and in particular after a LA-funded school becoming a new academy or part of an academy chain in England.

At its worst, this would be part of a deliberate strategy to encourage the relatively ill-disciplined pupils/poorer families/those likely to get lower results to want to leave.

This is often linked to other changes such as a completely new, more expensive uniform and other mandated things that discourage the poorer families and those parents who couldn't care less.

To avoid any misunderstandings, I am definitely not saying I think this is right though I've seen it. Several Heads/SLT/executives in Academy Chains I'm friendly with have said this has been a deliberate component of a 'successful' strategy to 'turn around' a failing school and improve results for the cohort that remains.

At its worst, this would be part of a deliberate strategy to encourage the relatively ill-disciplined pupils/poorer families/those likely to get lower results to want to leave.

This is often linked to other changes such as a completely new, more expensive uniform and other mandated things that discourage the poorer families and those parents who couldn't care less.

I’d put my money on this, or a new HT who has come from a private school or from a high performing school in a well off area with few disadvantaged children.

However, given that every rule is likely - in the current climate - to receive pushback, I also don’t blame the HT if he/she ignores it.

Every rule? Oddly enough I’ve never challenged a rule at my kids school or even thought about doing so because the school is measured in what they expect from parents and children, flexible enough in their work with children and don’t try to monitor, measure and control every aspect of a child’s way of being. They have a good discipline record and children attain a good level of education. So no, not every rule would be challenged but some really should be and some forms of discipline are utterly inappropriate for children and young people. Isolating a child at school for a week at a time absolutely should be challenged.

Every rule?

I think so. I have had parents challenge sanctions for almost everything I can think of. Deeply unreasonably.

And someone asked earlier whether I was still in education. The answer is no. I won’t be going back until the current climate of a constant barrage of complaint and challenge from parents (to be clear - for ridiculous reasons) improves.

Might be worth looking at why that is instead of calling people names.

jellycatspyjamas

😂

Why am I laughing?

Here’s an example. One of many.

Student was asked to take out a book in form time. Didn’t respond. Remained on phone. Student warned they were about to receive a behaviour point. Student told teacher to fuck off.

No sanction. Parents insist student can’t do detention. Teacher appeals to SLT. SLT day, “It’s nearly the end of the year” and make excuses. No action.

I am not even messing.

I just couldn’t.

Here’s another.

Student talks in class, picks his bum and flicks it at people, breaks his pen, never does his homework, is late, truants and argues perpetually with teacher.

Mum says she really does support school but doesn’t teacher feel she is being a bit harsh? Wouldn’t it be better to engage with bum-picking student, and get him on side?

HOY does fuck all. Senior leaders do fuck all.

Teacher resigns.

You sound utterly worn out and weary, and I’m not surprised given some of your experience but that doesn’t mean every child and parent is out to get you or that parents should never challenge the school or that the school should never listen to parents. As soon as you see it as them -v- us, you’ve got a problem - it’s probably good for your own well-being not to be in education tbh.

We had this bollocks when DD was at high school. She has ASD and had a 1 to 1. She got sanctioned for a missing highlighter, it was in her pencil case, her TA didn’t bother to check (despite being stood next to her and knowing she probably didn’t even look) so just signed the card.
She was sanctioned for a missing school book, her teacher had kept it to show other parents at an open evening as her work was so good, then bloody forgot about it, bollocked her and wrote on her card. What an absolute dick he is!

It was bullshit. I homeschool now.

jellycatspyjamas

It’s fucking fantastic for my wellbeing. I don’t for a moment think what you said, by the way. 80% of kids and their parents are amazing.

hercule
Waiting for someone to dare say 'that'd never happen'...

Sadly, it's the sort of crap that we put with regularly. If it's not bum picking (admittedly not had that as yet) it's snot flicking, spitting, food throwing, farting... I've said it before but I'd love for some parents to see how their 'D' C's behave round school 😡

WhiteDust

Yep.

80% of kids and their parents are amazing.
I'm going to say 70% after today.
Having a rest before planning commences. 😭

Hercule You sound worn down. I work part-time for my own sanity. Is that an option?

WhiteDust

No. I am not going back to education until action is taken to protect my mental health and that of my colleagues.

I am talking about parents having teachers’ email addresses; parents and students getting away with using abusive language towards teachers; utterly unworkable, contradictory policies that are undermined as soon as they are brought in; accountability measures that support the fiction that a child in KS2 is the same person as a child in KS4; constant low level disruption; pointless assessment and data entry.

I could go on.

But I have given examples of students not being courteous to their teachers and fellow pupils, and asked what should happen, and people have avoided the question.

Not so. I, for one, have answered that one.

There are some situations where I would challenge the school. Sexism, racism, homophobic comments, aggression, ooor discipline, inconsistency etc. Pens wouldn’t be up there. I’d just buy them.

So, what happens when you bought them but they've been stolen from your child. Or your child has major organisation problems due to learning difficulties and has lost them. Are you still up for the school imposing detentions because their behaviour policy says that has to be the sanction for not having pens?

Those examples are not issues with parents though. They are issues with management.

A decent management team would deal with it effectively.

A good HT is the key between a good school and a shit school imo. A weak ht and everything falls apart. A good one and the staff and pupils feel supported even in difficult circumstances

I am talking about parents having teachers’ email addresses; parents and students getting away with using abusive language towards teachers; utterly unworkable, contradictory policies that are undermined as soon as they are brought in; accountability measures that support the fiction that a child in KS2 is the same person as a child in KS4; constant low level disruption; pointless assessment and data entry.

All a symptom of a weak management team.

So, what happens when you bought them but they've been stolen from your child. Or your child has major organisation problems due to learning difficulties and has lost them. Are you still up for the school imposing detentions because their behaviour policy says that has to be the sanction for not having pens?

I am not “up for it”, no. If my child ended up with no pen because another child stole it, that would usually be something I only had to worry about once, unless there was bullying going on. I wouldn’t expect a detention to be given out over a one off. The school could do it, though.

If my child has learning difficulties, I or my husband will check every morning that they have the right equipment. Depending on the severity of those difficulties, I would expect to be able to engage with the SENCO about reasonable adjustments. We are not talking about children with diagnosed SN here.

My point is that I completely understand why the HT - and any HT - might not bend to parental pressure on the issue, believing that this is what he or she needs to do to raise standards.

But a head that thinks what they need to do to raise standards is to impose draconian sanctions for not having a purple pen shouldn't really be in that job.

lyralalala

I don’t disagree, but that isn’t the only factor.

Isatis

Perhaps. I haven’t spoken to this HT so I do not know the rationale. What I do know is that what you just said would be said by someone else about a different rule. Like I said, everyone thinks they are an expert.