Time off for DD3 settling in sessions for infant school

[Namechangeneedwine]

First time poster so please be kind

I work in special needs education. Absolutely love the job. Been in current job 3 years. Hours and holiday pattern suit family life, although I am struggling with my employer being incredibly inflexible when it comes to needing time off for dependants during term time.

I had a period of long term sickness last year for a bout of anxiety and depression, some of which was signed off. I returned to work and was put on stage 1 absence review, fair shout, I'd been off a lot. I was close to completing the process and being taken off review in April but came down with a nasty case of Bronchitis. The resulting time off took me over the level agreed in the absence review meeting, hence the whole process repeats and I'm back on review. As part of the review process I was asked to review childcare options as some of my other time off had been for care of DD when unable to attend nursery due to illness. In one meeting I was told that if DD was unable to attend nursery then I should be finding a childminder to take her if nobody could help out. Tried explaining the numerous issues with phoning a random childminder at 7am to look after a sick child but employer didn't seem to understand this. Was able to change childcare arrangements so that DM has DD 2 days a week on days when other family members might also be able to help out if DM unable to due to hospital appointments etc. I've made a real effort this year to keep absences to an absolute minimum. Time off for DD has been zero. She had chickenpox and spent the entire week with DM and DP has taken time off to wait for DM to collect when DD has been unable to go to nursery. I've had 7 days of absence over 3 occasions for sickness. This is low considering the amount of time others in the class and school have taken. The target set at my last meeting nearly 3 months ago was no more than 1 period of absence lasting no more than 3 days. I had 1 day off for a migraine, no other time off in that 3 month period so have met the target for time off.

On the whole, this year has been amazing. No issues with anxiety or depression, have had some amazing opportunities and feel I have really come into my own in the job and shown what I can do. My end of year review was glowing. However I feel I am still being penalised for my mental health issues last year as my absences this year haven't amounted to enough to trigger the review process, they're still taking last year into account, and for being a parent. I have requested some time off in July to take DD to sessions at her new school ready for September. There are 2 1 hour sessions on Wednesday mornings and 1 longer session on a Friday afternoon which would require leaving at 1:45. I feel these are really important for us to attend and I'd hoped as a school they would understand. I followed the procedure for requesting the time. It has been cleared by my class teacher. The sessions are luckily on good days for me to be out of school staffing wise. I handed the forms in before half term, so over 3 weeks ago. I was approached by the Head today as I was getting a child from the bus, so this conversation was had in front of other staff, students and bus drivers/escorts. I was told that I needed to find someone else to do at least some of the sessions or I would be escalated to stage 2 absence review, which includes a formal warning. These absences will be in the next absence review period so won't take me over my target for this current review period. AIBU to think that they could take these into account when setting targets for the next review period? It's not often your child starts school and these aren't going to be ongoing absences. I have given plenty of notice, no cover is required and the time off will be unpaid. I am a union member so am considering getting representation for any further meetings.

As a staff body we have repeatedly asked for a bank of time that we can book off unpaid for situations such as these, as we're unable to take any annual leave as such. We've also suggested some form of flexible working whereby we would be able to stay late or come in and make up time for absences for appointments etc but this has been repeatedly refused. I would really appreciate any advice here. Apologies for the long post.

Former chair of governors at a special school here. We had to introduce a blanket policy of no time off (except for medical appointments). With 100 members of staff, all of the requests for time off became ridiculous and impossible to manage - unfortunately, some staff really took advantage of the goodwill.
I think you are being unreasonable expecting to have time off for this, the benefit of working in a school is having all of the school holidays the flip side of that is having to work term time.

It’s also standard for time off to be on a rolling year basis, so they may rightly be taking last June and July into account when calculating your time off against policy.

Do parents stay for these sessions? Our primary asks you drop them off, leave and then pick them up after the session ends. kids whose parents are at work get the local preschool to collect them and take them back to preschool for the afternoon. It’s not 100% ideal but if you want to keep your job then needs must. Can you use whatever childcare you’ll have arranged for when your dd comes out at 3pm from September and you’re still at work?

To be honest you have had a lot of time off already. You say that you have had 7 days off over 3 occasions for sickness this year. That is a really high absence rate. You seem to want everything to suit your needs, whereas an employer has to make sure the needs of the business are met. It doesn't matter if you work in a school or any other profession your employer can't just keep giving you time off. You have a huge advantage over most working parents in that you have school holidays off. You have to accept that not getting additional time off is the trade off for this.

YAB massively U in my opinion.

Absolutely taking the piss.

If you didn’t work in education (public sector?) you’d have been sacked by now I’m sure.

You’ve had a shocking amount of time off. And you certainly don’t need to be there for three settling in sessions.

They’ve been saintly with you!

You are already skating on very thin ice. If you want to keep your job you need to listen to what the Head has told you and make other arrangements.

You can't have it all, OP.

Working means you can't make all the school events - that's just how it is. Working in education yourself means you get much more time with your kids than most working parents as it is!

Most working parents can't make school-time events because real-life doesn't work like that. Of course some can make the time up or swap shifts around occasionally, but of course that's not possible for the majority.

Just because you have a child, doesn't mean you're entitled to unlimited time off! Have her dad take some days, maybe grandparents can go to others, and for some she'll just have to cope without her parents there, just like millions of other kids do everyday!

The thing is jobs in schools have so many benefits, but the downside is not having time off in term time. You knew this when you took the job. YABVU.

Your sickness record (which is very poor) is a separate matter.

I feel a bit outraged on the part of your students and colleagues that you are seeking to do this.

I'm a teacher and didn't even bother asking for time off when my daughter had settling in events , her nursery took her. My daughter is year 4 now and has another end of year assembly that I can't make next week as teaching year 12 at the time. I look at it that I am able to spend holidays with her .

think the school could be setting a dangerous precedent. If they let you take off all 3 days for settling in they are going to need to allow the same for other staff members.

This is the worst reason an employer can give for not allowing individual circumstances to be considered. If you can’t manage staff on an individual basis, you are in the wrong job.

OP, regardless of whether you need to attend these days, you are right to challenge the principal of past sickness being taken into account. How long are you expected to make up for one bad year? There needs to be a reset on an annual basis and previous years only taken in to account if there is an ongoing issue, which there isn’t.

I had a bad year for time off last year. Life gets in the way sometimes. But my employer was understanding and hasn’t held it against me.

OP unfortunately it's something you are going to have to get used to, you'll be missing plenty of class assemblies, nativity plays, sports days over the next few years! This is the down side of working in a school

YABincrediblyU.

I know everyone rips the piss out of teachers / TAs and other school staff for having so many weeks holidays - the downside of this is that you don't have 'annual leave' you can take on days you fancy it. Fact.

Sometimes , school management do their best to try to be a bit flexible when staff have shown that they have gone the extra mile, as a thank you, but you are not 'entitled' to this time at all. You have had so much time off, that you haven't built up this credit, even if you are in a school that is able to be a bit flexible. I agree with the pp who said you seem to be just waiting until the end of your 'plan' so you can take more time off! You seem to be suggesting that "only" having 7 days off so far this year is something of an achievement to be celebrated .
You are saying that your LO 'settling in' is only going to happen this once, but a) you want 3 times off for it, and b) this is the very start of a list of Nativities, special assemblies, workshops, sports days and so forth over the coming years.

I dont know about the legal aspects of it but agree thst sickness for yourself and absences for your child's sickness or school settling in sessions shouldn't be lumped together.

I would see if your dp or mum could the school sessions tbh to show willing to head. Definitely don't do more than one. If you have union get them involved.

@freddiefox we've got one that takes the piss with stuff like this but by making it 'find your own cover' (not 'pay back the time', OP, that's not for the class teacher to say) it has helped as mysteriously nobody is ever available to cover her. Whereas the genuine ones will have four or five offers for cover for sports day, for example, including from people like me without kids so with no chance of payback, just doing it because it's a friendly thing to do.

The piss-taker may or may not have started phoning in sick instead but that would of course potentially lead to absence management.

Please don't stop people- just rely on your staff to self-sort and therefore self-police...

Is there a reason that your DP can’t pick up the slack and ask for some flexibility from HIS employer?

If my previous absences had triggered the absence management process and I was in a role than didn’t allow for flexibility during term time, I’d be expecting DH to do his fair share.

Please don't stop people- just rely on your staff to self-sort and therefore self-police...

I hear what your saying but staff work every day so there isn’t really anyone to cover. However we used to just get in with it, I’d go in to cover ratio’s. But now it’s just become to difficult and the whole things has got out of hand.

I also mentioned to my teacher making up the time and she said she'd definitely be happy for me to, as there is so much that just doesn't and can't get done during the school day.

How easy do you think she really would have found it to say, directly to your face, that actually she doesn't want you to have the time off because it'll be a total pain? It's not her decision but I also suspect she doesn't actually feel totally breezy about you not being there - and if it really doesn't make much difference to her if you're there in the classroom with the kids and it would be just as helpful to have you doing some admin after school, then that sounds worryingly (for you) like you're not actually needed at all.

It shouldn't be lumped in together
So you've had a long term sick for anxiety and a short term for bronchitis, that's not a massive amount of sickness
Sometimes you have a bad year! I triggered a stage 4 absence exactly 5 days before I would have cleared it - had to do a year with no sickness
If it's anything like NHS, once you trigger, it's then hard to clear it again because it only takes one absence to move up a stage

@Freddiefox ah good point I am secondary so there's nearly always someone on PPA or similar

I do hope this isn't real and that there isn't a teaching assistant out there so dim.
What a novel idea, a teaching assistant who is there term time, who'd have thought.

You are a serial leave taker piss taker. You have a dh who I can assume take annual leave to go to these sessions. I don’t work I’m education and we work flexible time and allow reduced hours but even your history of leave and requests would have you on a performance management plan in our office. You need to realize you will spend the next number of years missing stuff. I missed sports day last week because it just wasn’t possible to go. Work isn’t optional. If you commit to the job then commit to turning up.

I’m in the management team of a special school. I agree that it sounds like your school needs to update their policies; ours has guidelines to request limited paid term-time absence for unavoidable/ immovable things like hospital appointments, emergency childcare, funerals etc. As PP said this is partly to encourage staff not to just call in sick for the full day themselves.

We also find that staff in classes will often say to the person it’s fine even if they would struggle without them and then come to complain/ request cover. Staffing is the main cost in a special school (for us it’s 85% of the budget) and I know multiple schools locally that have had to cut class staffing this year to balance their budgets - we know it’s a hard job and people do get ill and have other things going on in their lives and we do our best to support everyone. It places an additional burden on the rest of the staff across the school however, when there are fewer people to share in de-escalating challenging behaviour or answer the on-call alarm due to non-essential absence like you are requesting. Also it’s likely the teacher would have to alter the lesson or pupils would miss out on their provision if they are a staff member down, so it does affect them. We do our best but if we don’t have enough (appropriately trained and experienced) staff in class we have to cancel things like hydrotherapy which are really important for the pupils, as it wouldn’t be safe.

We would have spoken to you in private about it and would likely authorise a single session (if you hadn’t already exceeded the limit) but expect you to make other arrangements for the two additional sessions.

You mention in your titidvtyst this is DD3. So how did you cope with DD1 and DD2? Why can’t that happen again?

I’m surprised that you would make any term time request for time off. I thought that was one of the things with working in education. You are working all term and then get long holidays.

I don’t work in education but missed numerous school events of DC’s as they were held when I was at work and not a suitable time for missing work.

@iVampire I think she means DD 3 years old.
I always thought the same as you DD1 (first child etc) tbh I’m not really sure which one is correct.