To think eating less animal products is a good think to be welcomed and positive about

[FeeFiFoFumm]

A lot of people I know are consciously making the choice to eat vegan or vegetarian for a substantial amount of their food. For reasons regarding the planet, or to switch to less meat that is less intensively farmed but more expensive.

So many people seem sneezy about this, ‘not a proper vegan/vegetarian’ kind of comments, putting down the effort and quite dismissive of the effort.

Whilst I appreciate that going vegan/ vegetarian has a greater personal impact I would have thought us all reducing animal product consumption/ seeking organic and better farming methods significantly is more realistic and would actually have a massive impact.

Yes, it is. :)

Were you reading the 'fish sauce' thread perchance?

Yes of course YANBU.
People on mn can get shitty about it for some reason - just don’t mention the ‘F’ word!!

I agree, the problem only comes if you try and impose your part time veg status on people who’ve invited you, if you are a part time vegan/pesc/veggie at home then it’s all positive. We are, we try and have several meat free days. The annoyance factor is declaring yourself vegan and requiring special catering for dinner parties etc

I'm with you, OP.

I'm neither vegetarian nor vegan but have recently become concerned about the environmental impact of animal product consumption.

I've been trying to cut down on meat, especially red meat. I don't think an all or nothing mentality is helpful.

I don't have numbers to back this up but it seems likely to me that if everyone everywhere just cut down on animal products and switched to a veggie/vegan option a few days a week it would probably have a bigger overall impact than the relatively small number of full time vegetarians/vegans combined.

I admire people who are able to make that commitment but life is often about compromise.

Of course reducing the amount of meat you eat is a good thing, and saying that you are trying to eat more vegan or vegetarian is fine. However, you can't call yourself a vegan/vegetarian.

The problem is that it leads to people getting upset when I say I can't eat something because my friend is a vegetarian and she eats tuna or telling a vegan my friend is vegan but sometimes eats eggs, why can't you?

It’s great to choose to eat less meat/no meat/drop dairy. Just don’t call yourself vegetarian or vegan unless you actually are vegetarian or vegan. It makes life a lot harder for actual vegetarians and vegans when the definition is blurred. Being offered fish as the ‘vegetarian option’ should be an 80s throwback along with orange juice and melon boats as a starter.

I think it would be helpful if people who had adopted the entire Vegan lifestyle along with the diet referred to themselves as Vegans which would allow people who ate a mostly vegan diet to use the word with a small "v". Like the Deaf/deaf divide.

I am a Vegan= I eat an entirely vegan diet, don't use any animal products and cry when I swallow a fly.

I am a vegan= I eat vegan food, but share my home with a rescue greyhound, and my children eat meat at their friends' houses but don't tell me.
I eat a mostly vegan diet= I am a human being and doing my best.

I am a vegan= I eat vegan food, but share my home with a rescue greyhound, and my children eat meat at their friends' houses but don't tell me.

If you're not eating the meat then you're still vegan. Your dog or kids eating meat doesn't stop that. I'm vegetarian but my cat isn't.

It’s about lots of threads and real life conversations.

When I way I see it between calling someone out for not being something vs just being happy less animal products aren’t eaten I’m happy to be quiet. In my head I think ‘hmmm’ at times but I never voice it simply because some people just can’t quite manage it, but their substantive efforts are good. I normally say something like ‘it’s great your managing so many vegan meals now’ or ‘yes, it’s good to look into where meat’s from’ or ‘less red or processed meat it’s certainly healthier’ rather than squeaking they aren’t as good as me or doing it properly. I genuinely don’t get wound up, because it’s positive progress in the grand scheme, and if alining themselves, with a frankly very fashionable, identity brings that change then I can shut it and support them with recipe offers and what not.

Why must we care so much about labels or if everyone did it before it was easy?

It seems like a cult to me based on dodgy science

I've stopped eating meat and practically cut out all dairy and eggs, for health/environment reasons more than ethics. I don't call myself anything though, if someone asks I say I'm trying to eat a mostly plant based diet. To me, a vegan is someone who has cut out all animal products and also avoids products tested on animals, for animal welfare reasons, it's a whole lifestyle rather than a dietary choice and to call myself a vegan would belittle (is that the right word??) that pretty big commitment that actual vegans make.

So if you don't eat meat at every meal you expect a medal for it these days?

If I had egg on toast or macaroni cheese for tea because it's just normal food that I enjoy, it really isn't worthy of getting the flags out.

A cult? Animals are slaughtered. In their millions. Their hardly flat earthers. ...

I'm not a vegan, but I think calling yourself one or veggie when you don't follow that diet, is unhelpful as others have said.

I agree.

If someone has a vegetarian diet all year except Christmas Day, then I see no reason why they can't describe themselves as 'mainly vegetarian'. It is a more helpful term than describing them as an omnivore. I don't see why the word vegetarian can't have the adjectives 'mainly', or 'relaxed, or 'strict' to it.

I suppose it's good if people cut down on meat and animal products but:

A) As PP said, don't call yourself vegan etc unless you actually are one. It's confusing and leads to people thinking vegans are hypocrites because "I knew a vegan but she would eat eggs sometimes" etc.

B) Don't come looking to me for applause. I've been vegan for years and my mum is always telling me proudly that her and my dad are eating less meat than they to. I guess it's a good thing but I'm not going to be all "Yay! Well done you!" She knows that I think eating meat is wrong so I'm not going to give her a big congratulations for only doing that wrong thing 6 days a week instead of 7.

I agree OP. There seems so much bad feeling and nastiness around not being vegan enough or being a vegetarian but only on weekdays.

FWIW I'm a strict vegetarian, I don't consume milk but do have some vegetarian cheese, I only have eggs from a local organic free range farm where you can see the chickens and their very good living conditions and I've still been bashed on MN on a previous post for not doing enough.

Why can't we all just eat what we want with no bloody judgement???

I’m with you OP. We’ve dramatically reduced meat, fish and dairy, but are not vegan or vegetarian obviously.

But we are doing our best. We avoid beef entirely, eat very little meat, and what we do eat is organic and high welfare from small local farms.

We also try not to eat too much soya as the farming methods are not great environmentally either.

When I was a teenager I was quite attached to my identity as a vegetarian, and felt I'd earned the 'right' to call myself a vegetarian by virtue of the sacrifices I had made. A purist, essentially fundamentalist attitude Now I realise that the thing that really matters from an environmental pov is the actual amount of animal produce a person consumes, not some kind of ideological purity.
On a second note, I am so bored of people giving vegans and vegetarians a hard time, thinking they are somehow preachy or virtue signalling. Personally, I fucking bow down in gratitude to anyone making sacrifices for the environment.

And, btw, I am now rather lapsed.

Environmentally speaking locally produced food is better than food which has traveled half way around the world to get to your basket.

This is quite an interesting read
www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/veganism-environment-veganuary-friendly-food-diet-damage-hodmedods-protein-crops-jack-monroe-a8177541.html

I agree, OP.

I told DH (who is what he would call a strict vegetarian) and his take is that he doesn’t his best when he’s in control (so we always have veggie Parmesan, for example) but if he’s out or at someone’s house and they give him actual Parmesan he’s not bothered.

But according to some posters that means that he can’t call himself a vegetarian. He probably consumes animal products about 1% of the time but that’s too much for some on here.

I think they are deeply tiresome and do nothing to encourage people to become vegetarian.

I think that vegetarians and vegans are entitled to their choice but I do object to beige preached at. I like meat in my diet and I have no issues raising animals for slaughter - my choice too! However I do look to minimise waste as I realise food production in general has an environmental impact. Take whatever stance you like - then keep it to yourself:)

but if he’s out or at someone’s house and they give him actual Parmesan he’s not bothered.

Which means when the next vegetarian they serve it to objects and refuses to eat it, they get called 'militant' because CassianAndor's DH eats it

Oh nooo, I am going to get sucked iiiiiiin by this thread...
Why is the label so important? Please explain. What does it do for one, being able to wear that particular badge?
Also, someone said just a few posts up "why can't we just eat what we like with no judgement?" I am thinking about this a lot at the moment. Because I am finding that, the more I educate myself about the state of the planet, I do kind of judge a bit more. Several members of my extended family are away on various 'week in the sun' breaks, and I think, "Is that really necessary? You went last year...", totting up the estimated emissions and wringing my hands. I can't help it. In the same breath, I cringe at myself and my lapsed vegetarianism; I know how much better it would be if I didn't cook us all bolognese. But the mince was reduced and blah blah blah. I think what I struggle with is the 'doing something when you really know better'. And that's the bit I feel judgy about. Animal agriculture is awful for the planet, not to mention the animals. And I know it. Cognitive dissonance.