To think that inviting primary children to witness erect penises, gang rape references and spikes up mens arses isn't artistic, it's pedophilia?

[ShouldIStayOrShouldIRun]

This art exhibition is being pushed by Gendered Intelligence, a group that works in schools:

www.transgendertrend.com/gendered-intelligence-training-teachers-kiss-my-genders/

The event is not age restricted, in fact children are being actively encouraged to go.

I have been informed by a very 'woke' friend that this is art and I am homophobic, kink shaming, and transphobic (because apparently even linking to the above website on my FB is, no matter what it says) and that maybe I should go with my own primary aged dc to 'broaden my mind'.

My mind has been broadened. That friend obviously shouldn't be let anywhere near my dc again.

AIBU?

• Opening post edited at OP's request

The lack of age guidance is horrifying. It sounds like it should be 16+ (enforced 16+ with ID or parent required to enter).

The ticket discounts and school special/free offers doesn't concern me as I assume that those are the ticket offers for the gallery, not the exhibition. They won't change as the exhibitions change, they'll just be standard.

I don't think we need to worry that primary schools are going to run trips to this - London schools know that the Hayward gallery is free for them and they will look for suitable exhibitions which might fit with their curriculum or enrich their children - this won't be one of them.

I do worry about young children being taken to the exhibition by parents who want to be uber liberal or who have bought into this agenda so completely that they no longer question it.

I think it's individual children who are at risk, not school groups.

London schools know that the Hayward gallery is free for them and they will look for suitable exhibitions which might fit with their curriculum or enrich their children - this won't be one of them.

And yet schools let their primary teachers go to the training without batting an eyelid.

Back in the days of video shops, children weren't even allowed to look at the box covers for adult films. My local shop had a full-length (non latex) curtain screening it off.

And that stuff - Emannuelle, Confessions of a Window Cleaner etc - was practically virginal compared to today's online porn and Hayward level stuff now.

FFS, we aren't even allowed to see cigarettes at the airport duty free now. They are behind closed doors as well, for fear of encouraging people.

But hey, no, this is just dandy, bring all the family for a fun day out! Have a picnic amongst the gay rape scenes! Take memorable selfies with the anal spikes! Yay for diversity like this!

The question has to be:

What exactly is the benefit to a primary school age child of taking them to something like this? How does it make their life better?

I phoned the Southbank Centre to ask about the sexual content in the show and get advice on whether it would be suitable for my children. The member of staff I spoke to couldn't help as she had not seen the show, but she said children would be admitted although there was sexual content. I asked again how I could find out WHAT sexual content was included, before seeing the show, and she went to speak to some colleagues. She came back sounding a bit flustered and said nobody there had seen the show as it was so new and so they couldn't advise me

So is the excuse going to be 'We honestly had no idea we were facilitating child abuse gov!'

If I wasn't at the opposite end of the country atm I'd be there taking pictures as soon as I could.

And sending them to the flustered staff to see if that helped inform their advice to the next caller...

How many children will be taken in there by liberal parents unaware of just exactly what they are walking into?

Or even more worryingly...how many are there like Vulpine who would now happily show their children this, because seeing porn is now just the same as children seeing their own genitals right?

There needs to be an 18+ age restriction on this. There should have been one on it from the beginning.

I'm at a loss to understand what is wrong with "kink shaming". Surely having a good old fashioned dose of shame about your kink is quite healthy for the rest of us who don't share it.

Exactly! It's the 'shame' element of it which means that those of us who don't want to partake aren't exposed to it.

Or that's how it used to be anyway...

What the hell has graphic imagery of BDSM and sexual violence got to do with LGB, or even T for that matter. I’m sure there are members of all of these groups who enjoy varied sex lives with other consenting adults, but quite what that’s got to do with gender identity, or being gay or lesbian I don’t know.

I have a perfectly normal, healthy relationship with my female partner, the more intimate details of which I don’t feel the need or desire to discuss with anyone else, yet this is being done purportedly in my name. Well no, not in my name. I wouldn’t let my 11 year old DS anywhere near that exhibition. Even if he was older he’d probably be scratching his head at what this has to do with his lesbian mum or any of the other gays or lesbians he knows.

Stop using us to push this sexually violent paedophilic grooming agenda. It’ll be people like me and my gay and lesbian friends who get the shit kicked out of us on the streets if the likes of Gendered Intelligence, or Mermaids with their drag queen BDSM calendar, or Owen Jones who thinks it’s transphobic to raise safeguarding concerns about rubberman making fetish porn at the NSPCC, are allowed to carry on hiding behind us to push this perverted crap.

Adults can do whatever the hell they like in the privacy of their own bedrooms, as song as it’s safe, sane and consenting. Sexual orientation has fuck all to do with it, neither has outward gender expression, and children need to be kept far far away from it.

What the hell has graphic imagery of BDSM and sexual violence got to do with LGB, or even T for that matter. I’m sure there are members of all of these groups who enjoy varied sex lives with other consenting adults, but quite what that’s got to do with gender identity, or being gay or lesbian I don’t know

It has got nothing to do with it.

It is used as a shield, so that they can cry 'trans/homo/phobia' at anyone who dares to raise an eyebrow.

Which is kinds the point of having issues with the TRA/MRA juggernaught.

It's not about trans people, it's about men.

Every fucking time.

To be honest (and at risk of sounding like Mary Whitehouse) I think that Gendered Intelligence and the Hayward should be actively reported to the Metropolitan Police. I'll need to work out what the specific crime would be but certainly deliberately targeting this at primary aged children (which they have done via their teacher's session) MUST break some of our safeguarding children laws - or what's the bloody point of having them. It's not holding the exhibition - if that's what floats your adult boat and all that - it's the deliberate aiming of this at children below the age of consent - and that included their special workshop for 13 - 17 year olds. And by a charity that works in schools.

Off to so some research.

I think that's a bit different sakrifice

A training event that comes off the back of an exhibition won't necessarily be an art course that is based purely on the exhibition. It could be a course on how to talk to a gender questioning child that uses one or two appropriate art images as a tool for understanding a thought process. Or it could be a course about different types of families, illustrated by some of the non sexualised pictures. It almost certainly will not be a course on how to instruct 7 year olds into the mechanics of BDSM and teach them to draw a realistic image of graphic child abuse. Even if it was, teachers are educated adults who undergo intense and frequent safeguarding training - they're not going to take that information back to their schools to impart to their classes. Once they've seen the exhibition they're also not going to rush to book a trip for their Year 4s.

If anything, I expect the training event has made school trips to that particular exhibition less likely, not more.

I still think the danger comes from parents taking their children (many completely unsuspectingly) - not teachers.

It's grooming OP.

Your friend obviously has no concern for children's wellbeing. So open-minded her brain has fallen out, as they say.

A training event that comes off the back of an exhibition won't necessarily be an art course that is based purely on the exhibition. It could be a course on how to talk to a gender questioning child that uses one or two appropriate art images as a tool for understanding a thought process

Anyone that invites schools to send primary teachers to a training event has specifically invited primary school teachers to come and learn how to use their resources to teach a specific message to primary school children.

Schools that send primary school teachers on a training event will want to know how their time and money has been spent on new resources and activities that the teacher has learnt how to use with their primary school kids to teach a specific message.

Schools have given up their teachers, and the time to benefit in some way from the training.

I am wondering just how gullible some people are to be honest.

It is staring you in the face and yet, you cannot see.

QueSera the friend that was berating me for not being 'inclusive' was a straight man. The men that joined him in ganging up on me also appeared to be so (well they had wives on their profiles).

I had to block them in the end as they were starting to spam unrelated posts with abuse.

I am shocked that I even considered him a friend now. I was obviously only worthy of basic human respect when he believed I agreed with him on everything.

There is a word for that and the word is grooming.

Totally inappropriate for school age children.

It isn't 'woke', it is pedophillia. Totally inappropriate, but not untypical of some elements of the transgender movement.

I'm finding this very upsetting. It's very close to home.

I am so appalled. Because I know I can be hyper vigilant I strive hard to be as factually neutral on these sorts of issues where boundaries are concerned.

But this is just taking the absolute piss. Soft paedophilia and grooming in broad daylight. And people who work with children so desperate not to seem bigoted that they are happy to sacrifice children's wellbeing in order to seen as inclusive.

Frankly I would not find this acceptable even for a 16 year old and I would not be happy with my soon to be 18 year old viewing it either.

Wrong on every count.

This is predictable and to be expected as the drive to include children and create a source of underage sex supply advances. Google, 'Desmond is amazing' and 'minor attracted persons' (the new name for paedophilia).

Welcome to the brave new world......which is rather like the Roman Empire with Emperor Tiberius and his 'little fishes'.

How can people not see the widespread targeting of children with kink? It's very distressing. There's an absolute onslaught on the boundaries of women and children, blurring the lines, pushing further and further until lines are meaningless and children can be exposed to any perversion in the name of inclusivity.

Vulpine
So boys are fine to see and adult masturbating? How far is OK!
Arw they OK to see that in a public toilet? A class teacher?
Boys discovering their own body is fine. I wouldn't like you to make policy if that means it is fine for them to be around adult males performing sexual acts

From DSM 5: Paraphilic Disorders [some of these are called kinks]

Let's hope the experts in CEOP, within the National Crime Agency are aware of this. Maybe some of their officers will go and take a look.

Good idea JackyHolyoake . As there's an online advert / invitation to children (13 - 17 year old) to attend the workshops and evening event then it would come under their jurisdiction.

I think if I'd seen this as a child I would have been unable to sleep and have nightmares for ages

As my grandad would have said... 'this place is turning into Sodom and Gomorra'.

Allowing children to see this is abusive, and amounts to grooming.

Maybe a complaint to Children's Services in the relevant borough (Southwark or Lambeth?) would be in order.

I still think the danger comes from parents taking their children (many completely unsuspectingly) - not teachers.

In the immediate term yes. But then you have to be aware that there are loads of parents with questionable boundaries around sex. At school I knew a girl who was very sexually active (as in sex with different boys, and allowed to bring them all home, she had started at 14) and both her parents thought it was so great and bohemian. Her parents would walk into the room while she was in bed with whoever. Make of that what you will.

So there have always been parents like this. Parents who leave their sex mag/toys around the house and argue that if you prevent children from seeing these things then you make it a taboo and (thus a problem).

Parents like these will go and find value in it.

To me the more insidious danger is the recruiting of those who are often the first line of defence in protecting children, being sent on a gaslighting training session, in order to

1. Lower their own boundaries confuse them about sexual safeguarding so that they can:

1. dessiminate such abnormal information to whole groups of unsuspecting children.

1. Enabling by proxy the weakening of children's sense of sexual boundaries and sense of self-determination around sex

With the end goal of: Making children easy targets for people with paedophilic motives.

It doesn't matter if primary children themselves are not going although that is horrific.

As long as the teachers go back and dessiminate this rubbish then all good. It's a pyramid scheme of sexual grooming.