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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that inviting primary children to witness erect penises, gang rape references and spikes up mens arses isn't artistic, it's pedophilia?

447 replies

ShouldIStayOrShouldIRun · 15/06/2019 07:27

This art exhibition is being pushed by Gendered Intelligence, a group that works in schools:

www.transgendertrend.com/gendered-intelligence-training-teachers-kiss-my-genders/

The event is not age restricted, in fact children are being actively encouraged to go.

I have been informed by a very 'woke' friend that this is art and I am homophobic, kink shaming, and transphobic (because apparently even linking to the above website on my FB is, no matter what it says) and that maybe I should go with my own primary aged dc to 'broaden my mind'.

My mind has been broadened. That friend obviously shouldn't be let anywhere near my dc again.

AIBU?

  • Opening post edited at OP's request
OP posts:
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WiddlinDiddlin · 15/06/2019 17:46

Er..

Surely the teacher training event was using the exhibition as a discussion point for TEACHERS to talk to other TEACHERS about how they discuss gender etc issues.

Not that they use the stuff in the exhibition to take directly to children, nor that they take children to the exhibition.

The ticket pricing and info from the gallery and is standard, not specific to THIS exhibition.

I think someones dropped a bollock in not putting an age limit on the exhibition itself, I don't think it sounds suitable to take young children to - though I do think parents should determine if it is suitable for their own older children/teenagers to see or not.

I see NOTHING that is specifically marketing this exhibit as a thing to take children to, and I think the speed at which many have lept to that assumption speaks volumes about them!

OrchidInTheSun · 15/06/2019 17:48

So you don't think arranging a teenage interaction week is a bit weird widdlin? No age warning and the interaction week is aimed at children over 12. Starts with going round the exhibition for inspiration.

ShouldIStayOrShouldIRun · 15/06/2019 17:49

Many followers of that charity are saying they are MAP's, NOMAP's (no idea what that is but it can't be good), sex channels etc.

How the fuck are they getting away with this? Why aren't their hard drives being searched right now?!

They are getting hounded by someone on twitter (I'm still getting used to it) and someone else has just said that an NSPCC employee follows the pedo page. Not confirmed yet though.

OP posts:
ineedaknittedhat · 15/06/2019 17:50

The university system is built upon left wing beliefs. Look how they refuse to host controversial speakers like Jordan Peterson. An education should involve listening to all arguments shouldn't it?

summerofresistance · 15/06/2019 17:51

Yup, that Prostasia "child protection" organisation is concerned with stuff like oing away with internet censorship on porn including child porn (but written in such language as it could sound like they had children's best interests at heart).

Also "Inclusive" and "sex positive" sex education (this means queer theory again)

The twitter feed links to an article that says sex offender registers are "cruel and pointless" and claims "other civilized countries, who presumably care about their children as much as we do, manage to deal with child sexual exploitation without the lifetime sex offender registration that strips these convicts of as much humanity as possible."

And, they're followed by loads of self confessed paedophiles. (MAPs is the modern term).

I can't be bothered to read more. That's enough.

A small test for those of you telling us this isn't about paedophilia.
Please read this twitter account. twitter.com/ProstasiaInc

If you find yourself going along with the rhetoric and thinking - oh, I suppose it could be legit, they do sound like they care about children - you need to wise the fuck up and fast. This is paedophilia staring you right in the face.

To think that inviting primary children to witness erect penises, gang rape references and spikes up mens arses isn't artistic, it's pedophilia?
WiddlinDiddlin · 15/06/2019 17:53

A 'teenage interaction week' is not the same as 'inviting primary aged children....'

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 15/06/2019 17:53

How the fuck are they getting away with this?

Because it's being pushed from the top downward.

summerofresistance · 15/06/2019 17:54

ShouldIStayOrShouldIRun MAPs and NOMAPs are paedophiles. I'm sorry. It's a nasty old rabbit hole this one, isn't it.

MAP stands for "minor attracted person". NOMAPs are "non offending minor attracted persons".

They'll all claim that they have urges, but don't act on them (chinny reckon) so we should be nice to them and accept them as they just can't help it. when hell freezes over

They were all kicked off another platform not so long ago (was it Tumblr? I forget) so they're on Twitter now.

OldCrone · 15/06/2019 17:55

Is this the summary of queer theory that you object to, AbsentmindedWoman?

Queer theory is based on post modernism which teaches that there's no such thing as objective reality. Our reality is based on our perception and our subjective decisions to categorise stuff. So a table, a cat - or even a woman - are concepts that we apply to the world but which aren't fixed to external reality.

From this comes queer theory, that is concerned with gender and sees even biological sex as simply a concept applied to people, something we can change simply by perceiving it differently.

Queer theory is also concerned with breaking down social norms. It divides sex and sexuality into "normative" and "deviant". (Normative being seen as bad, deviant being seen as liberating, broadly).

Homosexuality is "deviant" according to queer theory and therefore a good thing as It's breaking with social norms. But, also, kink and extreme sexual practices that break with convention are considered "deviant" (and therefore a good thing) and therefore "queer". This, and people supposedly changing their gender means a bunch of people we would see as straight are now calling themselves queer.

For those of us who are not familiar with queer theory, could you give a summary of what you believe it to be? Because from the small amount I have read about it, this summary seems to me to be quite accurate.

summerofresistance · 15/06/2019 17:55

A 'teenage interaction week' is not the same as 'inviting primary aged children....'

One again for those at the back.

The exhibition page specifically invites primary children by detailing offers for primary aged groups.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 15/06/2019 17:55

WiddlinDiddlin*
The session was for teachers to use this exhibition as a starting point for discussions with children about gender identity. Why an art gallery would want to use such an exhibition to generate discussions in the classroom involving 4 - 18 years olds I cannot imagine ? I suspect they listened to Gendered Intelligence who advised that this would be a great thing and just the type of thing they talk to children about all the time.

And this is the invitation to children aged 13 - 17 to access the exhibition for a special project:

www.southbankcentre.co.uk/whats-on/136997-kiss-my-genders-youth-takeover-project-2019#events.

I am pleased to see so many people on here being very clear that our children's boundaries are not up for being manipulated - I sincerely hope that this speaks volumes.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 15/06/2019 18:04

Why are pp trying to act like this is only just maybe the very thinnest of margins beyond the limit of acceptability for children and it's just us fussing over a minor error of judgement.

It's not just a bit over the line, there's a fucking Grand Canyon of a line between what children should be protected from; and this.

MenuPlant · 15/06/2019 18:07

Intetesting thread

Just had a thought

The idea that 'kink shaming' is bad

Isn't shame the whole point with some kinks? Take that away and where s the fun.

They haven't thought this through.

How will people who get sexual excitement from knowing what they are doing is transgressive / looked on as shameful etc if no one bats an eyelid.

Hmmm.

The point is something else. I am inclined to agree its about boundary blurring / removal for young people and children.

Person who said boys have dicks so no harm in them seeing adult men wanking is a case in point.

WiddlinDiddlin · 15/06/2019 18:07

@truthis

That's your interpretation, not mine - as I have said, I read and understood that to mean the event would be teachers discussing with other teachers, prompted by the contents of the exhibition, ways to discuss gender identity issues.

Interpreting the standard gallery price list which includes details of how their pricing funds school visits, and prices for all exhibitions, many of which will be entirely suitable for all ages, to mean 'we want you to bring tiny tots to see massive throbbing cocks... is fucking ridiculous.

As for the teenage event - thats something i would assume parents would determine suitability for their child, is that not a part of parental responsibility? I can think of young people I know who have a strong interest in art and in gender issues, who would be very interested and I know of plenty for whom it would be hugely inappropriate indeed.

I think the whole idea of using the exhibition to get teachers discussing stuff is fucking stupid but thats artists for you, they like attention, they like controversy, and we think the general population can extrapolate they way they want them to, when really, they can't.

I also think not having an age limit is bloody stupid, the gallery have dropped a bollock there.

I do not see that there is an agenda to lure in tiny toddlers and turn them into transgender queer freaks - you think this isn't suitable for your teenager, don't take them!

ShouldIStayOrShouldIRun · 15/06/2019 18:07

summerofresistance that is horrific!

I've been reading down their follower list. Lots with photos of young children, presumably theirs, lots claiming they are 'proud' maps.

Why is twitter ignoring them? Shouldn't their conversations be being monitored or something?!

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CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 15/06/2019 18:08

Why are pp trying to act like this is only just maybe the very thinnest of margins beyond the limit of acceptability for children and it's just us fussing over a minor error of judgement.

Because judgement and healthy boundaries have already been pushed and blurred so much that some people really don't understand what's healthy for a child to see.

This is the result of years of pushing and re-educating from these groups.

hardyloveit · 15/06/2019 18:10

I haven't read the whole thread but read most.

Primary age children do not need to know about rape, gang rape, extreme fetishes and porn! End of!

My eldest is in year 2 - she knows what gay and lesbian is because her auntie has a girlfriend and she totally accepts that!

She definitely doesn't know what sex is and shouldn't at this age!

Who in their right mind would let Primary age children go to something like this?

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 15/06/2019 18:10

Why is twitter ignoring them?

Because twitter are part of the problem.

summerofresistance · 15/06/2019 18:14

I take massive issue with the disgraceful summary of queer theory on page one of this thread. Queer theory, and queer culture, does not support rape or paedophilia.

I don't doubt that AbsentmindedWoman doesn't support paedophilia, but queer theory absolutely does, even if she and many of its followers don't realise it. The founding literature of post modernism and queer theory DOES support paedophilia.

Derrick Jensen is great on the problems with queer theory. Hopefully this link should take you to 1h 47m. He starts this bit with anarchism (lots of people calling themselves anarchists have bought into queer theory) and moves on to queer theory and details precisely where the support for paedophilia comes from..

Also, read Dr Em for an discussion of queer theory and its links to paedophilia. Her recent series of blog posts is very informative. Part one is here: medium.com/@doctorEm/the-trojan-unicorn-queer-theory-and-paedophilia-part-i-a0cf30ef7bfa

An excerpt:

When I see the term ‘queer feminist’ or ‘queer feminism’ I suspect, maybe hope, that those using these descriptors have not done the reading.

As the old proverb states ‘the road to hell is lined with good intentions’. I do not believe that all these young woke people, charities, institutions and arts festivals are supportive of rape and paedophilia, of ‘queering’ and transgressing boundaries feminists have worked tirelessly to establish.

Nevertheless, this is what queer theory aims at. As Sarah Beresford has analysed, ‘The term “Queer”… is by definition whatever is at odds with the normal, the legitimate, and the dominant, and aims to destabilize dominant ideas of identity, whether that identity is sexual, gendered, ethnic, national, and political and so forth’.

This sounds liberating and progressive until we remember that ‘the normal, the legitimate, and the dominant’ include the idea that adults should not sexually abuse children. Unnervingly, the reframing of child sexual abuse and liberating of paedophilia from the margins of society is a dominant idea within queer theory.

Although it has attempted to cloak itself under the rainbow and harness the energy, good will and gains gay, lesbian and bisexual people have fought for over decades Queer theory is anything but progressive. Indeed, it is totally opposed to same sex attraction. As Professor Alassandra Tanesini outlines, a ‘characteristic trait of queer theory is its opposition to any view that treats sexual orientation as anything other than socially constructed’.

Thus, same sex attraction becomes a preference which can be unlearnt or cast as bigoted for being exclusionary. This is homophobia in a shiny new case.

Unlike transgender ideology which is underpinned by queer theory, queer theory has key proponents and a body of literature which we may interrogate. This series of essays will first look at the post-modern foundations before moving on to queer theory and paedophilia.

It's not good enough to say queer theory doesn't support paedophilia just because you haven't noticed it. Do the research please, starting with these links. I'm practically spoon feeding it to you.

CountryGirl1234 · 15/06/2019 18:16

WTAF! I’d be fuming if a school took my DC to see something like this. Gay/lesbian fine - no problem, the ‘weird shit’ save it for when your old enough to discover it and not be surprised.

ineedaknittedhat · 15/06/2019 18:16

Twitter only ban right wingers and gender critical feminists.

ineedaknittedhat · 15/06/2019 18:19

If you criticise these people on Twitter, you'll end up banned.

sackrifice · 15/06/2019 18:19

Why is twitter ignoring them?

Twitter ban the people who object to them.

summerofresistance · 15/06/2019 18:22

Selina Todd's talk at WPUK recently was excellent at giving some context to queer theory and feminism.

Transcript of her talk here: womansplaceuk.org/2019/05/21/feminism-postmodernism-and-womens-oppression/

And video here:

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 15/06/2019 18:22

I'm betting a bunch of readers are now thinking "what, I must be missing something, things can't have gotten this extrem?" But are hopefully reading all the provided bits and pieces and digging for themselves.

Swipe left for the next trending thread