How long can you have something undiagnosed before it's negligence?

[Jonette]

Just wondering how much leeway medical professionals have?
As in if you've had something for years, when is anyone going to ever ask the question of the doctor(s) 'Eh, why didn't you notice that?'

YABU doctors aren't mind readers. They diagnosis based on information they receive. The onus should be on a patient to advise the doctor of what symptoms they have and then the doctor can investigate based on that.

Depends what it is, some disorders and diseases are very hard to diagnose, it took years for my blood disorder to be pinpointed accurately

When I've seen GPs for UTIs in Germany they scan my kidneys, because they have ultrasound machines in their surgery. In the UK this happened only after I had been in hospital for 3 days with the infection (I missed). When I went back to my doctor later as I had more kidney pain his diagnosis was to get me to stand up while he tapped my back and asked if it hurt a lot. It didn't so I was sent home and told not to worry. Since moving to Germany I've been scanned loads of times for far less - and it showed a problem in pregnancy, probably caused by the old damage to my kidneys.

The problem is if you're not medically trained how do you know if something is normal or not?

Most people know their own body well enough to know if something is wrong, surly? I know how much sleep I require to not feel tired, or I know that if a certain body part is hurting something may be wrong, or if a cough hasn't gone away after 3 weeks ect. If a person has an issue and it is physically or mentally bothering them then it should get looked into.

As an adult, you really shouldn't need to be medically trained to know if something is wrong with your own body

i think 'most' of the time.when it isnt stupidly missing something which would be clear for most to see its so hard to answer this question.and this sort o stuff bring pople to dwell and question and do all the what ifs that arent helpful to healing.
lots of illness have the same symtoms.and many horrid cancer say have symtoms that are expalined away and do fit at the time.like a back ache.or an infection that is then treated but is actually down to a tumour.eye problems and brain tumours.
i do think there are cases though when the patient does know their own body better than anyone and when these poeple are being sensible and trying to get the docs to listen and the docs are just ticking boxes,or not going further becasue of the cost of the scans etc.this is really fucking annoying but also the climate we are living in.

Sometimes it's annoying when drs miss things but they are only human, that aside I've raised a PALS complaint recently that has now been escalated to an 'incident' compliant as 2 doctors have missed referrals from professionals and my DH is now terminal.

YABU.

My doctor minimised the damage to my hip caused by osteoarthritis. I had an X-ray taken two years ago, then another recently. I haven’t seen either, but the NHS physio has (now), and says I should have had hip replacement surgery after the first one. The Dr told me there was ‘a bit’ of arthritis in the joint then.

I’ve endured two years of sleepless nights, depression and intense pain, and had to give up a job I loved because of a dodgy diagnosis.

I won’t do anything about it- I love our NHS and in every other way it serves my family well... but I feel deeply resentful.

About 20 years ago or maybe a little more, I said to my GP that there was something wrong with me. I didn't know what it was, I didn't think it was likely to kill me, at least not quickly, but it was definitely not right.

Over the course of that 20 years, with me keeping going back for various tests and chasing blind alleys, it turned out to be two things. One was actually there in one of the blood tests at the time (my testosterone level was too low and falling), but the lab flagged it as 'normal' (and under the guidelines in place at the time that was correct) and so wasn't considered further. The other (coeliac) was hiding in plain sight but I was given IBS diagnoses and told to reduce my stress. It wasn't until much later that someone else did a coeliac blood test.

Negligent: probably not in the legal meaning of the word, but in the ordinary sense, definitely.

But I don't know what is normal compared to other people. If it's something chronic then it's not as though it's a sudden change overnight - that most people would get checked out. If it's a gradual change over years or has always been that way you can just assume it's normal, or related to getting old.

How can you quantify what is a normal level of tiredness or forgetfulness, a normal amount of headaches, the normal amount of pain during a headache, or frequency of colds? I don't know these things. The amount of threads MNers start about what is a normal appetite or how much discharge do you get and things like that suggests to me most people don't know how to compare themselves to others.

That must have been awful for you to deal with Shockers but it isn't really what the OP is complaining about. Seems she expects doctors to be able to make a diagnosis on hardly any information given. Obviously in your situation, there were plenty of symptoms but it got missed, which unfortunately happens as doctors are only humans and not miracle workers.

OP, were you this cryptic with your doctor? 'I don't know what symptoms are, diagnose me' won't get you far.

Yabu, it is hard to diagnose and doctors aren't mind readers, most people are not capable of researching and drawing real conclusions... most google searches will take you to a worst case, and often incorrect, result that is ultimately a waste of GPs time.

My grandmother presented over a few months to her GP and was diagnosed with sciatica. As time went on with no improvement her GP ordered more tests and found cancer, by that time it was terminal but her only symptoms pointed to sciatica so her doctor had done everything right based on the symptoms presented.

@BertieBotts you seem to think everybody should have the "same normal" which is not the case. Every person's body is different. There is no such thing as "normal". If it bothers you then its worth getting checked out. You go to a GP with an issue, they ask you questions and that's how they tell you if there is a concern and how the treat it.

How can you quantify what is a normal level of tiredness or forgetfulness, a normal amount of headaches, the normal amount of pain during a headache, or frequency of colds? I don't know these things.

So are you honestly saying that if you struggled to sleep every night and felt constantly drained and tired all week for months on end you wouldn't think something was wrong? Or if you were always getting colds, multiple times a month, throughout the year- you wouldn't think something was wrong? Or maybe if you woke up every single morning with a headache?
All of these things should be pretty obvious as an issue if it impacts your life and i'd be quite concerned if adults were not able to realize this.

My cancer was missed by several doctors. I had a variety of tests including scans and it was only after I had surgery to remove the ‘cyst’ they realised they had made a mistake.
Originally I had been given option of surgery or wait 6 months then repeat all tests. Since the lump was stopping me breathing at night I opted for the surgery.

4 years later while undergoing tests for a breast lump, that doctor got a hold of my scans from 4 years ago and asked how they missed the cancer as it was obvious from the scan it was a tumor and a ‘fair size’

I've recently been diagnosed with severe obstructive sleep apnea and I'm bloody furious about it. I have been complaining to various GPs about the symptoms for more than 20 years but just wasn't taken seriously. My quality of life just got worse and worse, to the point where I haven't been able to work for the last 15 years. It was my new practise nurse on first meeting her who spotted that this may be the cause of my problems. I've lost the best years of my life because my GPs all failed to spot it.

I think people are missing the point of this thread. The discussion is about doctor's abilities to diagnosis based on little to no information on symptoms from a patient. Obviously, those that have suffered due to mistakes or obvious things being missed- as awful as that must have been to go through- it isn't really what OP was talking about and i'd hate to see this thread turn into a "NHS bashing" one.

The OP doesn't mention anything about 'little to no information on symptoms from the patient'.

The OP doesn't mention anything about 'little to no information on symptoms from the patient'.

Well no. The OP has hardly said anything but i'm implying based on their posts that the seem to think the doctors should have a mind reading ability.

Had a slipped disc for three years. Had it misdiagnosed on numerous occasions. I was told it was everything from Lupus to period pain. I have found that consultants tend to go for the most complicated explanation.

Due to two experiences in my own life, I am now very forthright with my GP who is fortunately excellent and takes the view that ruling things out is better than the alternative. When I lived at home, my mother trusted our GP implicitly and wouldn't have any criticism. He misdiagnosed an ear infection I had and treated it incorrectly, which subsequently left me with a chronic ear condition that I still struggle with to this day. I was 19 then, I am nearly 50 now. It has caused me a lot of pain and problems over the year and my hearing has suffered as a result. I changed GP as soon as I left home. The same GP dismissed my Mum when she presented with severe acid reflux and an inability to swallow food properly, often bringing small amounts back up. He prescribed Gaviscon for 18 months. By the time my Mum's oesophagael cancer was diagnosed (his referral was reluctant and he didn't really want to do it), it was far too late and she died. She saw him repeatedly and not once did suggest further investigation until she was really poorly. This was 15 years ago, she was 60 and I am still extremely angry about it. Had he done his sodding job properly, she may have survived to enjoy the grandchildren she never met. It subsequently turned out that this particular GP had made a lot of "mistakes" and he just left and that was that.

I agree it is vital that you are honest with your GP, that you don't hold back and indeed that you are insistent if you feel you are not being taken seriously. There is a huge difference between negligence and not being a mind reader and a GP can only base his decisions on what you tell him, what symptoms you describe. I am so fortunate to be under an "on the ball" practice who do take concerns seriously.

pulling teeth would be easier than pulling information from these medically naive people. yes having visited your uncle in africa is important. yes your new diet craze of drinking gallons of fermented mushroom juice is relevant.

Right, but often, raising symptoms is met with “one ailment at a time”. As an example, I suspected I had carpal tunnel. It came a long at around the same time as swollen ankles, sporadically sore and clicking knee joints, a weird rash in an isolated part of my body, also some double vision in one eye, and increasingly heavy periods. I only mentioned the carpal tunnel when I went to the doctor, because when I even hinted at something else I was told to make another appointment if I wanted that dealt with.

They took some bloods and found anaemia. So that’s what they treated. Meanwhile the carpal tunnel got worse. It was only when I saw a private GP who I could chat to about everything, she suggested some of it might be linked.

So, it’s not as simple as pulling teeth.

@larry5 Your comment about people walking around with cancer and not knowing is very true. My friend's reasonably young and fit husband has just been diagnosed with terminal bowel cancer that presented no symptoms at all. It was found by accident due to another minor health issue. It's tragic. No GP could have been blamed for that.

pulling teeth would be easier than pulling information from these medically naive people. yes having visited your uncle in africa is important. yes your new diet craze of drinking gallons of fermented mushroom juice is relevant.

Totally agree with this. Took my dad to the Drs after years of him complaining about his hip pain and his reduced mobility but he said the drs just told him to take pain killers.

When I was there the dr asked if he was in pain and he said no! I said dad you are in pain all the time, you can barely walk! And he said oh I mean now I’m just sitting here I’m not in pain. Doh. They finally sent him for tests as I made it clear how much pain he was in and how restricted his mobility was and turns out he needed a double hip replacement.

I had issues on and off for years, and was back and forth to different doctors, I was mostly fobbed off, or told my physical symptoms were caused by depression (in hindsight my depression was caused by my physical symptoms!) I was eventually in my early thirties diagnosed with ME and then fibromyalgia. That was only because I researched my own symptoms. I had had glandular fever in my teens, and later found out this is not an uncommon trigger. I wouldn’t go so far as to say the doctors were negligent, but if I could figure out my symptoms from the NHS website, then maybe one of them could have as well?

Negligence is based on a panel of peers, So say there was some sort of issue that resulted in a serious incident the case would be reviewed and opinions of how similar practioners would have managed the situation. If everyone else would have made a different clinical decision (with a similar skill set) then it would be classed as negligence