To wonder why Croydon/Sutton get so much negativity

[Dobdebdop]

Me and dh are looking to move from our current house and our currently house hunting in these two boroughs. We are seeking to be able to go mortgage free so I can start a business.

When we brought this up to family and friends, many sounded absolutely horrified at the idea.

When viewing properties we found most of these areas to be pleasant and absolutely fine. The high streets in both are a bit shabby but Central London is less than 30 mins for shopping so we can just go there.

I dont understand why there is so much negativity to this part of South London, I don't know much about this area but my impression is that it was an absolutely fine place to live.

Come to Streatham. It's great!

@StCharlotte - we met in TigerTiger 😳

The problem with talking about gang culture in relation to Croydon is that it's not exclusive to Croydon. I grew up in and went to school in z2 south London - and my own experience of it was that there was FAR more of a problem with it there and then than you see any sign of now, even around West Croydon (an area of Croydon town centre I think we can all agree is scuzzy). So if you're talking about it in generalist terms, yes, I agree. We live in a densely populated city which will of course have more urban problems than those experienced in leafy Surrey. But it's not true to say that it's exclusive to that postcode or indeed borough.

Problem is that even tho the South of the Borough bits are nice, you will have to go to the town centre from time to time for clothes/shopping/restaurants unless you are always going to leave the area for shopping and eating or drinking out which isn’t v practical. Town centre altho has a nice mall still has a down at heel feel particularly as you go to the far end towards west Croydon and likewise the feeling in the night around the bars and pubs. I left 16 years ago having grown up there and it felt like it was getting worse in the centre, altho I lived in selsdon, sanderstead and s Croydon.

Town centres are fine for essentials though.

I am currently in Boxpark eating some v spicy noodles having gone to post office, chemist and Primark (v good refurbed one). Whilst it is v crappy seeming and it's a pain the buses are suffering due to the works is so much better now work has begun. And yes it doesn't look great but between town centre and Purley way we are well covered. Agree with pp that is more like a town/county in its own right rather than 'just' a suburb of London

Yes, you can definitely get everything you need in the centre and at Purley Way or any of the big supermarkets.

I lived in Sutton for a bit - I found it a bit bleak and nothingy but not dangerous.

Not sure what the pp joking about needing stab vests in Sutton is on about ... I've lived and worked in some dicey parts of north and east london and Sutton felt very safe in comparison.

I dont know Croydon that well, I used to go there sometimes shopping and for work meetings, only in and around the town centre though. It may have some nice bits but my initial impression was that it was a shithole and I was grateful I was only visiting.

The last update I saw on the Croydon Westfield was in Feb this year. It said they were "reviewing their plans" (ie fewer shops, more flats) and that work would not commence until 2020.

So unless there has been a further change since then, the Westfield development has not yet started, although there may be other unrelated building/improvement works going on.

In the meantime the town centre has been left to rot.

I took my DC in after school for an appointment, and there were 2 mounted police in the high street, to keep the many gatherings of young people under control. It felt threatening. This is not something that used to happen when I was school age and growing up in Croydon. I have never directly experienced gang culture or violence, either when I was at school or now, but of course it happens - it happens everywhere.

But as I said before, there are nice areas in the south of the borough (I live in one), with reasonable shops, good cafes and restaurants, and so you can happily avoid the centre of Croydon for all most of the time.

And if the Westfield does ever happen, that'll be great, but don't bank on it - after all, it was supposed to be finished by now!

Chartreuser What are the prices like in Boxpark? I'd like to try it

That's Roehampton

DCs spend ages waiting at that bus shelter on their school run!

Well, I hope it is no longer the den of iniquity it was in the early 70s!

The old bus shelter was double sided, and there was a rose garden on the triangle bit, so the side that faced away from the road was remarkably secluded. It had a bench that ran the whole length of the shelter and there was a handy off licence on the corner.

The pluses were that we were on the edge of Selsdon Woods

MinesaPinot, when I was at school, we were packed off into Selsdon Woods for the afternoon to learn how to find our way around with a compass and OS map. The estate where you lived wasn't built then.

Years later, some friends bought a newly built bungalow down there.
Because all the roads were named after birds, the estate was nicknamed Vulture Gulch.

Opalyra many places do a lunch deal for about £6 and normally you can get good for a tenner (fish lab were doing fresh tuna steak with chips and salad for £9-50).

Yes, Anitagreen that is part of Roehampton. As is Alton Estate and other places. It is huge.

I think once the millennial hipsters get priced out of places like West Norwood and Crystal Palace they'll gravitate to places like addiscombe and the chicken shops will get replaced by trendy cafes and bars.

I think you're right givemesteel. Gentrification tends to ripple outwards from the centre of cities. When I moved to Sussex, Brixton was just changing from run down and crime-ridden to getting a bit cool and hipster-ish. West Norwood was still thoroughly rough (there was a pub called the Thurlow Arms where you could buy anything; drugs, gins fake passports). Now the "desirable" bit has spread further out, and parts of Sydenham, Penge and Streatham are really quite sought after.

When you think about Addiscombe (lots of once fine Victorian/Edwardian period properties converted into flats and decent-sized 30s built houses, open spaces and great transport links), it has a lot going for it, and is ripe for moving up in the world.

The thai place in boxpark does great noodles for about 8 quid i think, big portions. The Indian place does nice lunches for less. Sorry can't remember the names!

I think Westfield, or some version of it, will get there in the end. In the meantime, the food and art scene is thriving and the excellent transport links mean it's becoming more and more attractive for professionals and families. There is an undercurrent of gangs/crime, much like Brixton/Streatham/Lewisham in the 90s, but I don't really think it affects people who are not in that life very much on the whole.

They need to sort the retail side out, but everything else is fine imo. Lot of investment going into buildings, offices, flats, upgrading transport hubs etc. Nice housing around it, lots of parks and green spaces.

I still can't believe people think of Sutton as deprived or a bad area. Have any of you saying this actually been to such a place? The majority of the London Borough of Sutton is nice, safe and a good place to live. Like many suburbs the town center was built post war so is lacking a bit of character but that doesn't make it dangerous or bleak. I also wouldn't class it as a white working class area, there is plenty of diversity and I would see it as more middle class than anything else. At 500k for a 3 bed semi in a lot of the borough it certainly isn't cheap! A lot of trendier "gentrified" places to live are actually more dangerous or closer to more dangerous areas but because they are trendy that is ok, in a more boring suburban town then it is just bleak instead.

Sutton has secondary schools which are almost without exception very good, including five grammar schools, so don't be so dismissive of thetown. I challenge anyone to find another borough (or indeed area of the UK) that does so well by its secondary school pupils. It is coveted for its schools by families from across London! It also has Sutton High School (GDST).

I think you would get a bad impression from the lower end of the High Street (towards Asda) but there's lots of regeneration going on at the top end (near the station), and some very nice family housing stock (think individually styled period properties which must all be worth £1million+) a ten to fifteen minute walk from the town centre (heading towards Cheam Village).

There's also the acclaimed Brasserie Vacherin in Sutton which is run by an award-winning chef.

Sutton is ok. The shopping area is bleak at one end as it’s just empty buildings and bleak at the other end with cheap shops. But there are some ok shops amongst them. Lots of restaurants. The cinema is great after the refurbishment. The one-way traffic system is annoying but, thankfully, not as long or as complicated as in other places, such as Croydon. Nice parks, nice houses.

I personally did not like Sutton as much because I thought the town centre lacked any form of decent nice coffee or eatery. It had all the chains but not much else. It has nicer architecture than Croydon (not a fan of brutalism), it could really benefit from more independent shops and less pound and chicken shops.

@Chartreuser Sorry it's just when your saying huge houses on Clarence lane that isn't Roehampton, past Roehampton lane isn't Roehampton , Clarence lane Estate yes but the big houses don't come under that I'm not sure of their postcode but it's never been a part of Roehampton. The Alton estate, Danebury, that is. Dover house road is Putney and by the Richmond park entrance where the big million pound houses are that isn't it either.

Sutton always strikes me as a polarised place to live. Lots of social housing including what what was once the biggest estate in Europe (info about it at the museum in Carshalton Beeches) - Roundhay? But in contrast lots of really lovely period (albeit mainly late 19th to mid 20th Century), detached properties of some size.

The arrival of the H&M to the High Street must surely be a sign that the shopping is on the 'up' again?

It is interesting though in that you seldom see the affluent residents shopping locally - suspect they all head to Kingston - except at school pick-up time.

I think it is an area with an 'underbelly' of deprivation and associated problems. Some mildly anti-social behaviour around the town centre after dark.

Anitagreen we will have to disagree on this (wiki confirms boundaries) but this isn't the point of the thread en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roehampton