To ask if you are or have been a controlling or abusive person

[ForeverDave]

What, if anything, made you change?

Also, would be interested to hear from anyone who has managed to make progress dealing with someone like this.

If you are someone who is constantly told you are controlling or upsetting to be around...do you just think you're right? Do you think boundaries are silly and get enraged if someone tries to have privacy or autonomy from you?

I don't think I'm either controlling or abusive but I sometimes have difficulty keeping my temper. I have fantasies about hurting people I hate. I hate myself more for it.

Is this a reverse thread Dave? Why don’t you tell us your story?

No I’m too lazy to control other people I can barely control myself

I think I was on the way to being a bit controlling due to insecurities. I then realised I was being selfish and that all I really wanted was for the other person to be happy.

My controlling ex made me into him! He'd constantly grill me on where I was, who I'd spoken to etc. Then throw in comments that so and so at work fancied him! So, while it wasn't a concious choice, I became controlling back. I've realised my behaviour in a relationship very much mirrors the other person. If they are laid back and trusting then so am I. If they're toxic in any way I end up fighting fire with fire so to speak.

No. I'm too lazy to bother. 😅

Not a reverse. I am low contact with my DM whose behavior is awful. I care about her and think she cares about me which is why I want to see if there is anything that can be done.

We used to get on. We were very close when she was working through her terrible relationship with my abusive DF. She used to say I was the only thing that made her life worth living, now she treats me like crap. Over the years she has had to lie and manipulate and control to get the better of him. He had a serious health problem a few years ago and totally changed as a person. Still difficult but no longer abusive.

Sadly when he got better she got worse and has continuously escalated. She was always difficult but maybe the overdrive of that control and the need to lie all the time now has nowhere to go but me?

She's had a rotten life in many ways and I don't want to sort of desert her if it can be helped.

I think the cause of this escalation is my DP. The longer our relationship has gone on the worse she has got. When we started dating I heard her loudly tell my dad not to worry (?!) that I would "go with anyone" so it would not last long.

Things she does:
Insults me in very cruel personal ways and if called out starts shouting that she's been called mean and I am awful. Shes goes from seething abuse to literally acting like a little child. I read on here the other day that this is quite common.
Very manipulative.
Rages and rages at me to destroy my self esteem. My looks, my job, my relationship, my personality, my friends, my stupidity. After listening to her I feel like I should just top myself. I used to self harm significantly until I met DP who has helped my self esteem a lot.

Judges others harshly while elevating herself to the point of fantasy.
Lies. If called out she defends the lie. I am talking the grass is pink kind of lies.
Backing my DF up calling me a slag (not to my face, just loudly from behind a door, this is his "thing") because I have a DP and am not married. He used to drunkenly call her a slag too but he's stopped now and she claims it never happened.
Refuses (by various lies and manipulations) to see me with anyone else present. This is because once years ago she let rip in front of a friend of mine. Basically she was then deeply sheepish at the mere mention of that person because she was ashamed. I know, however, if I had been alone it would have been made out to be my fault.
The level of control she has over me is insane. I feel very silly for letting it get this bad but despite that, I have fought it every step of the way. That's maybe why I didn't realize I was fighting a losing battle. If I wrote out the kind of control that has gone on I doubt anyone would believe me as it's extreme and some of it very strange too. Bear in mind that my DM feels this level of control is not enough. I am late 30s btw she is mid 60s.
Passive aggression. Emotional blackmail.
No boundaries. Suggestions of boundaries are met with rage.
Gaslighting. Will scream at me that I need to "be put in the nut house" because I recall conversations she denies happened. When I point out that I am able to run my own business and work in my DPs yet no one has noticed me hallucinating or lying she starts giggling and acting like a little kid again.
When she needs or wants something she is nice, open and honest. It's that person I miss, whether that's the real her I don't know. If she is getting her own way she is nice, too.
If she doesn't want to do something she will agree to do it, sabotage it and then make me think it was my fault.

I've tried being honest. I've tried being understanding, she just uses it to further her aims. Standing my ground is all I can do but the barrage of highly personal abuse is hard to take.

All I have to offer anyone else as a suggestion is to try and involve other people being present and/or relaying information to another person.

When I got together with DP she said she refused to let me marry him. I think I was off on our second date at the time. Recently she just suddenly started planning our wedding. The ring she wanted me to have. The house she would "let" us buy, the fact that when we get married we must have a baby right away "just the one though that's all you'll be able to handle". She said we would keep the wedding secret from the 100% of her my DFs relatives they have fallen out with and that of my few friends only 2 would be suitable to attend. My DF of course would get tanked up, bang on about immigrants (and in her view be right because she has to defend him all the time) and presumably be totally stumped for a speech as he has never met my DP and has barely spoken to me in the 38 years I've been alive. 50% because he is not interested and 50% punishing me for something, real or imagined, ever since I can remember.

I didn't go into detail, just very calmly told her no. She went into absolute meltdown. I have not seen either of them since.

That was cathartic.

I have to see them again soon to sort something out. I have to decide now what my approach to this will be :(

Pgqio do you hate many people?

QueenBiscuit I'm glad you turned it around. I think the saddest thing about controlling people is that they end up pushing away and alienating the people they want to keep close.

I decided to fess up about something but then reading the rest of your comments on here, I don't think it will help.

When I was turning 24, the guy I was with mentioned in passing that I can be quite manipulative. I really appreciated him telling me because we spoke about it and it helped me see how various behaviours I had were not good for me at all, and why. No one has ever bothered to tell me, they just let me get away with it.

My behaviours weren't toxic though. They weren't putting ME in a safe position, but I wasn't lying, controlling or abusive. I was just excessively cheeky and people found me cute and charismatic and let me get away with things.

I started to change after that chat, and I'm really glad about it.

However, there's a massive huge big giant difference between that, and your DM. I've also seen in my own parents how the effects of one controlling and abusive parent makes the other parent potentially awful too because of the counter-effect. And the longer you are with an abusive person, the more you learn to pick up some of the traits yourself in order to survive.

I think you have no choice but to distance yourself.

The problem with this kind of question OP, is that most people who are genuinely abusive and controlling don't realise they are. They'll have a quality that makes them narcissistic or some kind of personality disorder. Their world revolves around them and they will only see things through their own eyes. They lack empathy for others and only seek to gain for themselves. Sometimes they will have feelings of grandeur, sometimes they will see themselves as the victim. They will either rewrite history, justify their actions through lies or plain old deny. The scariest thing is when they lie to themselves and believe it.

I think I can be a bit odd about cleanliness and being clean. I know that in the past, I've sought to make my partners wash more frequently. I try not to keep on, now.

Oh dear, that really is a horrid situation. How likely is it for you to go no-contact with her? I wouldn't normally jump straight to that situation, but she is seriously messed up and I can't see how her being in your life causes you anything but pain - even when she's getting her own way and being pleasant I bet you're on eggshells wondering what you may accidentally say or do to set her off again.

Op she sounds a bit worse than controlling

She sounds bloody awful

LucyAutumn I know what you mean. I picked AIBU rather than relationships to ask this as the latter is populated by the people on the receiving end. I don't think I can sort this out from my side alone, she's going to have to at least try to meet me somewhere (not necessarily even half) along the way.

Oddly I think the marriage and wedding totally on her terms was her idea of meeting me halfway. Like, I accept your relationship now. So to her, my non participation in that was confusing and enraged her. There's no way to give her a bit of what she wants though. She will push and push until she gets 100 %. I usually try harder but when it came to that subject of course my DP would have his wishes as well, her balancing that out in her mind wouldn't be possible so I just had to gently shut it down.

Her idea usually is to control people she can't control through me. In this case DP. She once tried to get me to have a friend change her wedding guest list to get rid of someone she and my DF had fallen out with (their fault) so they could attend without feeling embarrassed. I don't mean she asked me, I mean she ranted and raved and insulted me for weeks. It's all so extreme I don't know why she can possibly think it's normal.

Asta19 You seem to have got some good insight to yourself there. My DM would describe me as difficult and angry, this really confuses my DP because it's the opposite of how he would describe me. I think some people are hard wired to make everything into a struggle, it's exhausting to me.

Anarchyshake thank you for sharing that confession. I'm sure you're lovely and well done on making a positive change :)

It seems like abusive people create their own downward spiral in way. They behave badly and punish people for standing up to them, so their family etc start walking on eggshells and keeping quiet and they get worse and worse.

You are totally right about the relationship dynamic. Adapting to abusive behavior has a terrible impact. To me it looks like the ultimate abuse really, to take away a happy, well balanced person and replace them with a messy one. In the case of my DF he did this to someone who literally worshiped him and did everything he wanted. Pointless.

even when she's getting her own way and being pleasant I bet you're on eggshells wondering what you may accidentally say or do to set her off again.

I have told her this, she says that's how it should be and treats it like a joke. I explained that was why she sees less and less of me and she said I am horrible.

I am very low contact now, and no face to face or phone. I'll have to see them soon. How that goes is going to determine either very cautiously rebuilding or very sadly concluding it's not possible.

Amibeingdaft81 Her behavior certainly is awful. She's a really damaged, angry person. And she's about to lose her only child for the sake of being stubborn.

I really can't wrap my mind around why she wouldn't try and understand. I'm certainly not claiming or requesting perfection in this situation.

From what you've said OP, I think maintaining contact with the hope of her changing is hopeless if I'm honest.

She will not change. She is toxic and you will break yourself trying to get her to understand.

I have bpd and struggle in relationships to ensure I don't spiral and engage in negative behaviours. But I do it because I'm very self aware and I don't want to hurt my very lovely DP, and sabotage what we've got. It takes a lot of self awareness, a willingness to understand parts of yourself that aren't very nice/are destructive and a desire to be better for the people you love, and YOURSELF. Sadly your mum doesn't seem capable of that level of insight and you'll destroy yourself trying.

@Anarchyshake

• When I was turning 24, the guy I was with mentioned in passing that I can be quite manipulative. I really appreciated him telling me because we spoke about it and it helped me see how various behaviours I had were not good for me at all, and why. No one has ever bothered to tell me, they just let me get away with it.

My behaviours weren't toxic though. They weren't putting ME in a safe position, but I wasn't lying, controlling or abusive. I was just excessively cheeky and people found me cute and charismatic and let me get away with things.*

This was exactly me during my twenties especially during manic periods - I felt powerful and that I could enter a room and draw in anyone I wanted. Cocky as fuck. Lots of people considered me to be their closest friend but I never reciprocated in the way they thought I did. It's hard to explain, I just felt I could be charismatic enough to get whatever I wanted and when you believe it, other people do too - it worked.

BUT this meant I threw all of my genuine emotional energy, needs and insecurity into relationships behind closed doors. It's like there was a public me and a private me. I was incredibly manipulative and guilt tripped previous partners who were also manipulative - a cycle of my insecurity, their lies, leading to more insecurity and more lies - round and round we went. I'm sad I did this in the past but we all make mistakes.

Lots of counselling and self awareness later, I have found the middle ground that is the genuine me. She's sometimes cocky and sometimes insecure still, but a healthy dose of those qualities not extremes.

Abusive people have convinced themselves their behaviour is justified. That's why they won't change unless they choose to independently. They don't change because their target contorts sufficiently or finds the perfect words to persuade them.

I don't think I can sort this out from my side alone, she's going to have to at least try to meet me somewhere (not necessarily even half) along the way.

You can't sort this. It's about her beliefs and her choices, not yours.

"Compromising" in the way you describe is just you being controlled by her but convincing yourself it's progress.

The level of abuse you're describing is extreme. My fear for you, reading your posts, is that in your desperation to save her you're going to sacrifice yourself.

I don't think you could have tried any harder, but it's probably time to consider that the life you need to focus your efforts on saving and nurturing is your own. That doesn't mean you don't care or have compassion for her, it means you value your own life and recognise the limits of what is within your power to influence.

There is a reason why reputable abuse perpetrator programmes won't work with a perpetrator who is still in a relationship with their target. They need to be changing because they want to for themselves, because they're invested in it, not as a way to keep hold of somebody.

Have you read the stately homes threads?

I'm sorry to say this OP but that isn't just controlling it's abusive.

I think you're partially in denial about that....your DM is emotionally abusive.

Unfortunately you can't change other people and your DM is highly unlikely to change. I would actually bet my entire house on it.

It's not up to you to make up for the fact that your DF was abusive. It is sad that's she's had a sad life but you, as the child, are not here to fix it.

In fact, by trying to fix it or even 'meet her half way' you're playing into the co-dependency that she's trying to hang on to.

I would suggest reading up about narcissistic mothers

I'd also suggest seeing a counsellor 1-2-1 (not CBT, something like integrative) to work through the abuse you've had from both parents, how that's impacted you and to work through your ongoing relationship with them.

DoctorDread Yes self awareness is a big one. I think my mum is too insecure to do that, she is never wrong, even when she is it is someone else's fault. A difficult way to live.