To ask if you would still have had your children if...

[nanbread]

You had known then what you know now about the environment / climate change?

I had my DC before the last couple of years when reports from the UN etc have come out about unsurvivable conditions, the end of civilisation etc within maybe 30 years, us having 12 years to do anything about it. And seeing the subsequent reactions from governments worldwide which can be summarised as giving zero fucks.

Knowing what I know now, despite how my children are my life and I couldn't love them more, I doubt whether I'd have had children (they're still young). I feel so scared about what they will face in their lifetime and guilty about bringing them into it.

I saw a news report recently saying that Japan are worried that their population has slowed down. So maybe that evens it out a bit.

and power my house with renewables,

Just How do you do that Freyasmum1

@nanbread

Yes there are people on this thread who seem to have taken into consideration whether to have DCs or how many DCs to have due to environmental concerns but I have never come across it outside the Mumsnet bubble.

Yes but I’m really really glad I have two boys. I plan on sending them out into the world to just have the best time. I have no desire to be a grandparent so I’m probably hoping they won’t necessarily have the same desire as a woman would to have children. If they are the last of my family line that’s okay with me.

@Justaboy

I have no idea how people do it tbh
But lots of people seem to preach about their solar panels saving the planet so I figure there must be someone somewhere doing it

It was purely theoretical though
I'm afraid I'm actually not very green at all although I do have a reusable coffee cup now which gives me a disproportionate and entirely unearned feeling of superiority whilst allowing me to bury my head in the metaphorical sandpit my multiple children are playing in

I won't be having children for this very reason.

Climate change is an obvious issue but there is so much more at play. Species extinction and biodiversity loss, air and water pollution, water crisis, soil degradation, deforestation, resource depletion.

I'm in my early 20s, have always loved babies and always imagined myself having a lot of children. But I won't be forcing anyone on to this sinking ship. I've researched this subject extensively and am fully aware of what my children's generation (and mine) will likely live through and think it'd be selfish of me to ignore that and have them anyway.

We'll need a completely unprecedented level of global cooperation to tackle these issues and I just don't see that ever happening. Reading online discussions on websites such as mumsnet has made me realise just how little the average person is willing to sacrifice and give up. I've seen threads where people are encouraged to go ahead and have that 4th or 5th child if that's what's they really want. People gleefully announcing that they fly 30 times a year to visit their family in Uruguay and they have no plans of stopping because China pollutes more. I feel like I'm doing my part by forgoing children but I won't be sacrificing anything else. I'll continue to fly, travel, eat meat and enjoy my life while I can and without needing to worry or feel guilty about my children's futures.

Well Bobby, I think your view is very fucking depressing. You are, of course, a product of your environment, but your opinion seems to be a crash and burn scenario.

And that's the opposite of what the futre needs.

Freyasmum1 The power companies buy their power from renwable generators they sell that to the grid and its mixed in with all the other sources but when the wind doesnt blow or its dark at night then your supplied with Fossil power. The other source Nuclear is also mixed in the grid hesiate to call that a renewable.

No.

@ILikeyourHairyHands Fair enough but my decision to not have children has been liberating and has given me piece of mind. My goal is to enjoy my life without being burdened by the guilt and worry that I would inevitably go through if I do have children. I've done extensive research so wouldn't have 'I didn't know things were this bad!' As an excuse. I'd have brought them into the world with a full understanding of what they'd likely face, all because I absolutely had to pass my genes on and create little people who would love me?

I should probably add that even if we weren't facing ecological collapse I would still only have children if my circumstances meant I could provide an excellent quality of life for them. I know life happens and circumstances change but I wouldn't bring children into the world already knowing that their quality of life will be poor. The environmental threats we're currently facing (and failing to deal with) almost guarantee a very poor quality of life for children born today so I'd rather just opt out of having my own completely.

I'm 26 with no kids. I always thought I wanted one or two. Now I'm really wrestling with the decision to have kids at all, because I have no idea what kind of world they're going to have to live in. Is it fair to bring life into the world right now? I don't know.

And it's an awful thing to have to think about, by the way. That's not a consideration I ever thought I'd have to make.

What a crock. The country had an ice age, a dessert age, an age when there were trees from lands end to John o grotes. There were times when there were frost fairs on the Thames. Now if the edges freeze there is panic. I find the arrogance around climate change outstanding

Well there weren't 8bn people living on earth at that point that needed livable landmass.

Also do you mean world, not country?

Mmm, dessert age

I’m childless through circumstances but I lots of ways I’m happy to be that way. Maybe climate change seems generations away in the UK but here in Australia, or at least south east Australia where I live the climate is already making life difficult.

It may sound alarmist but I already have plans of moving to New Zealand in the next 10 years as summers where I live are becoming so unbearable.

Our country also just rejected voting in a political party that actually had policies to start tackling climate change in favour a party that kept the status quo for the sake of the economy (despite the fact that our economy has actually been faltering for some time now.)

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-47192612 ]]

Meanwhile...Hungary is pushing for a population boom. Women who have four or more children will never pay income tax again, in a move aimed at boosting the country’s population.

Early 20's you sat Bobby?

Nice ideals.

say

I'm 36, I haven't had children for many reasons and climate change is definitely one of them.

Its not depressing its just realistic, and scientific. Having children is a very selfish thing in a lot of ways. People do it for self actualisation.

That report is described as "overblown rhetoric".

It seems you have cherry picked the one quote from the article to suit your narrative, and I guess that's the problem.

It's hard to accept that we are potentially facing the end of human civilization.

(And by that I don't mean the end of the human race, but life as it is.)

But until we do at least accept that as a possibility, we won't change.

@nanbread we're not going to change anyway. Weirdly enough, democracy is part of that problem. No government is going to enact a load of unpopular legislation that will get them voted out of power, even if said governments had the will to do it in the first place. Barack Obama had every intention of putting gun controls into place but failed because of the opposition. However, changing the method of governance would signal the end of modern life as we know it anyway.

I look at it like this: we were incredibly lucky to have been born in the era we were. Throughout history, pretty much every other time period had it worse. Many of our ancestors were alive in some truly dark periods of history. Millions of people are currently living through horrors and the complete disintegration of all that they know in other parts of the world. Death has always been a part of life, but that doesn't mean life is no longer worth living. Yes, change is scary, but nothing is permanent anyway. Eventually, our sun will engulf the earth and that will suck big time for whatever is left living on this rock we call home at that time. By all means be environmentally conscious and lobby for change in the interim and live your best life. But realistically, the band will play on, the ship will sink and those that survive will need to find another way to exist.

Hmm. I'm 30 and the older I get, the fewer children I want. In no small part thanks to reading Mumsnet - you guys make it sound that fun

My husband feels the same way, and the more of our friends have children, the more we think we'd stop at one birth (multiple births are highly common in my family, so another reason to limit to one pregnancy, as I definitely don't want to risk 3 or even 4 if I already have 1!).

The environment is a factor in that, but the above are more relevant factors.

I think giving up having kids because of this is like giving up on life and humanity. I won't do that. Maybe everything will go to hell, maybe. But I still want to believe in the future and I fully intend to give my son (8 months) a sibling asap.

Yes I would have/did. Like you, I fully believe what the reports say. However I don't think people are being honest about their motivations for having children. If you get down to it, everybody's motivation is - I want them. Everyone knows that having children is a massive risk in a million different ways. They don't care. OP you didn't either and you still wouldn't if you were childless now.

Not having children when you can and want them is one of the most difficult things you can do. And waiting until you have a bunch of them and saying "oh yeah I should have never had kids" is the easiest.

You commonly see this on infertility threads. People make posts about their sadness at their situation and gets heaps of idiotic replies like "oh no you're the lucky one, I'd have never had kids if I knew I wouldn't get lie ins any more" and "if I didn't have kids I'd be so happy and travel around the world". This from people that have 2-4 dc! People have very little understanding about their own behaviour and motivations.