To start a thread about homophobia?

[Fallofrain]

In response to the thread about the homophobic attacks being dominated by conversations about misogyny.

I am a woman (womans right are important to me) and I am gay but increasingly it appears difficult to discuss gay related discrimination experiences without the narrative being diverted away to something else.

Imagine if you were discussing sexism and men popped in on everythread and made it a conversation on class then insisted it had nothing to do with you being a woman.

Everyones experiences are valid, please stop talking over gay people

there is never a place for any sort of homophobia anywhere in modern society. totally agree with you, everyone should be able to speak freely and not be shouted down or talked over.

The biggest form of homophobia is practised by Stonewall who deny the validity of same sex attraction.

how does that make sense ? happy to be educated.

There is a common link between homophobia, and mysogyny, and indeed racism. Brexit has led to many more of those with those hateful views to feel emboldened to express them publicly, either in words or actions.

Brexit didn't 'make' people homophobic or racist, they already were.

YANBU

I'm a straight woman and I acknowledge that lesbian women suffer homophobia in addition to the misogynist shit that most of us have suffered.

I'm mixed race, so I've suffered racism in addition to misogyny and sometimes from people who are not misogynist

@fecketyfeck21 Stonewall believe that men who identify as women can be lesbians and that lesbians who do not agree are transphobic. Stonewall believes that attraction is to gender identify and not biology. They believe that a woman can have a penis. Stonewall rejects same sex attraction.

Lesbians get homophobic crap from every direction including from organisations that pretend to care about their rights.

I agree with you OP. Lesbian voices are constantly dismissed or drowned out. It’s really frustrating. I want to hear what lesbians are saying about their own experiences and I wish others would shut up and listen instead of derailing with whataboutery.

Its just really difficult to have conversations when people dismiss your experience. That thread has a lot of "well i dont class it as a homophobic attack" etc which i imagine is definately not how the victims feel!

Is this about the two lesbians on the bus getting attacked? How the hell is that NOT a homophobic attack?!

How can it not be a homophobic attack?

It is exactly why school curriculums need to include education about tolerance and respect to try to counter the at best outdated views that too many are being raised amongst

Sadly a lot of people dismiss homophobia against women, in my experience women more so than men, but of course the experience of others may be different.

My cousin is gay, the biggest problem she experiences is that so many (straight) people see being gay as a phase when it involves women rather than men. As though a woman is unable to know her own mind and desires.

There have been recent problems in clubs round here, straight people going to gay clubs (which is perfectly fine), but then sadly some then exhibit some fairly homophobic behaviour if a woman comes on to them. Less so with men, purely because straight men are less likely to go to gay clubs.

Then we have the issue that the word gay is still an insult.

Yes, I completely agree with you OP. Jt really pisses me off when someone tries to start a thread about homophobia, racism, classism etc and people just dismiss it and say well this is a male violence problem, not anything else. Yes part of it can be sexism but it's incredibly annoying and quite rude actually to just talk over people and dismiss them.

I think porn culture also creates a lot of issues like yesterday’s attack for lesbians as it seems to glamorise and make their relations into something that many men fantasise over.

I agree with you OP. Lesbian voices are constantly dismissed or drowned out. It’s really frustrating. I want to hear what lesbians are saying about their own experiences and I wish others would shut up and listen instead of derailing with whataboutery.*

Yes. Lesbians have protested at both Pride & Stonewall about not having our voices heard & about the lack of respect for our orientation as women attracted to our own sex - not to males, however they identify themselves. Stonewall & Pride both responded by calling the police.

I agree you are entitled to your piece without people drowning you out or talking about some other issues

How can it not be a homophobic attack?

I think it was, but that the men who did it didn't have homophobia as their main catalyst; because they don't recognise female homosexuality, if you get me.

(Probably due to porn) they think all lesbians are lipstick lesbians.

They wouldn't realise that that in itself is homophobic (not recognising lesbianism as a real sexuality) .. not sure if I'm explaining myself well but I think that's why people thought of it more as a misogynistic attack.

It was both, I suppose.

Perfect example of what you’re talking about on this thread OP, with someone trying to turn the conversation into one about transgenderism!

I’m bisexual rather than lesbian so I have it easier in some ways (I am now married to a man, so ‘pass’ to people I’m not specifically out to and probably therefore encounter less discrimination). But I totally understand how difficult and frustrating it is to have conversations about homophobia when people who don’t experience it themselves deny your experiences or try to find alternative explanations / excuses or insist that other issues are more important. It makes it very hard to make progress, and can leave me feeling very exposed.

Agree with Aphid - we aren’t even off page one and somebody is already trying to turn a conversation about homophobia into a trans discussion.

Of course it’s a homophobic attack. And as a gay woman who, I have to say, has actually had very few issues over the years in terms of homophobic abuse, the stuff I have experienced has been from both men and women I don’t know and have never seen before effectively telling me it’s disgusting to be a lesbian.

Brexit didn't 'make' people homophobic or racist, they already were.

Agreed. It simply emboldened those already homophobic arseholes. Like giving a drunk person a megaphone; they're still drunk but now more people can hear their bullshit.

Yeah people also keep telling me how they are protecting lesbians by engaging in debates about trans. The amount of people that almost say they are doing it as a favour or to protect us lesbians as if i should be grateful.

Certainly they arent protecting this lesbian and arent representing my views.

I can remember when similar arguements were made about gay marriage and gay rights.

I would like every fucking incident of homophobia, both overt and covert, discussed to death till not a single person was unclear about what an acceptable way to speak about or treat other people is.

Yeah people also keep telling me how they are protecting lesbians by engaging in debates about trans. The amount of people that almost say they are doing it as a favour or to protect us lesbians as if i should be grateful.

Certainly they arent protecting this lesbian and arent representing my views.

I can remember when similar arguements were made about gay marriage and gay rights.

P R E A C H

You're perfectly right to want to discuss homophobia without the discussion being diverted to another agenda.

I raised that I thought it was driven by sexism and I apologise.
"Pencilcase123

The biggest form of homophobia is practised by Stonewall who deny the validity of same sex attraction."
Wtf?? Really...?