FGM on year 5 school curriculum

[MermaidMummy]

I'm really not sure if I'm being unreasonable, so I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.
My 9-year-old's class has just started learning about puberty. We have been told that the next lesson will cover terminology such as erection, sperm and female genital mutilation.
I just don't get why they need to learn about FGM at 9 years old. Some of these kids are very "young" for their age, and mine is very sensitive (won't watch the news in case an "adult topic" crops up).
What is the rationale for teaching this in year 5? There is nobody in the class from a cultural background likely to carry out FGM, but even if there was, would a 9 year-old know that it might happen to them and inform a teacher (if that is the rationale for teaching it)? From what I have read they aren't told anything about it in advance. If it has already happened to them, what is the benefit of bringing it up in class? Couldn't it be damaging and stigmatising?

What’s wrong with crying if you hear something sad and shocking?

Again - does the teaching make it clear that only certain communities do this and who those communities are? Or am I meant to tell DD (year 4, but 9) that it won't happen to the white girls but might happen to the black girls (it's a very diverse school with a large African community) but I don't know who or really why?

I would want a lot of information about this so I could be prepared to deal with DD's question and upset. Because damn right she'd be upset at the thought that some of her friends might have this happen to them.

OP you asked if YABU everyone has told you that you are

Littleduckeggblue, no, not everyone, and I wasn't simply asking if I was being unreasonable to get a yes or no answer. I was interested in opinions. Opinions I have received.

Oh stop with that mumsnetty shit about everyone telling the OP she's being unreasonable.

It's so bullying and pack mentality.

I am absolutely not telling the OP she's being unreasonable, so go figure.

Again - does the teaching make it clear that only certain communities do this and who those communities are?

It does at secondary age yes, as it should.

For some reason we are fine about saying Jewish and Muslim parents circumcise their boys but a bit delicate about saying some parents from African countries circumcise their girls.

no, they haven't little. Such a lazy, tiresome comment to make, but there's always one who has to trot it out.

My DD accidently learned this in year one when I left her watching a YouTube video for her Nigeria project. Not sure I have ever dived across room so quickly in my life.

thanks Fibbke - I think some posters live in areas where this is 'something that happens to other people' but we live in an area where for all I know it does happen to girls at DD's school - so it's not just academic.

Or am I meant to tell DD (year 4, but 9) that it won't happen to the white girls but might happen to the black girls (it's a very diverse school with a large African community) but I don't know who or really why?

Perhaps you could do some reading or research, if you did you’d know that fgm is prevalent across a wide range of backgrounds, not just the black African population, some victims are indeed white. You’d also know that in some countries fgm is on the increase, and in others it’s been introduced relatively recently.

Maybe teaching about it in schools will reduce the levels of ignorance about fgm.

I'd think I'd done something wrong if my kids were matter of fact about FGM at age 8.

I didn’t say they don’t react. But we are able to have an open, age-appropriate discussion without hysterics. My older two are very aware of the dangerous encroachment on women’s bodily autonomy happening in America, where we are from, and they know in broad terms what an abortion is. Last time we talked about this it veered into a discussion constitutional law and the Supreme Court. At 8 and 10 my DCs don’t lie awake worrying about abortion laws but they are growing up with a strong family value of women’s rights. The discussions will mature as they get older. If I couldn’t do that with my kids I would think I’d done something wrong.

(Clearly I know you aren’t saying you can’t discuss things calmly with your DCs. I’m just showing you I can play that silly straw man game too. If you’re having fun keep at it but I’m done. I prefer mature discourse where we give each other the benefit of the doubt and don’t put words in each other’s mouths. And that is what I model for my children.)

Or perhaps I just have a trio of budding sociopaths who will grow up to support all manner of repugnant sexual assault. 😱😂🙄

jelly so what you're saying is that the school won't cover this that thoroughly but parents will need to do plenty of research in order to properly fill in the gaps when their DC come home disturbed by something they've been poorly taught in class.

That's exactly what I'm fucking asking, for Christ's sake. I don't know a huge amount about it and nor will many parents.

I notice that one of your points is that it is odd to seemingly go from 0-60 in basically teaching them the words for their body parts and then going straight into FGM from there. I can sort of see your point there with it being quite a jump in information, but I would imagine schools have quite a limited time to get all of this information across around other learning - when I was at school for example, I only had 3 sex education lessons. Lesson 1 was talking about feelings and managing emotions, lesson 2 jumped straight into putting on condoms and lesson 3 was a video of childbirth. They literally only had 3 lessons and had to get the main parts taught.

yes exactly cassian

also quite interested to hear the information about white European girls being subjected to FGM as that is what jelly seems to be suggesting as I can't find any.

All I can find about FGM being taught in primary is this about safeguarding:

"What to include in the school’s Safeguarding Policy

If your school has a low number of girls from at risk communities

1. Add the definition of FGM into your safeguarding policy.

1. Add a paragraph like this one:

‘At [school] will believe that all our pupils should be kept safe from harm. Female Genital Mutilation affects girls particularly from north African countries, including Egypt, Sudan, Somalia and Sierra Leone. Although our school has no/few children from these backgrounds and consider girls in our school safe from FGM, we will continue to review our policy annually.’"

nothing about it being discussed in any way with pupils

OP you asked if YABU everyone has told you that you are

No they haven’t! I don’t think she’s wrong, and my child won’t be participating in those lessons. It’s totally unnecessary. It’s nothing she need know about or worry about at that age.

jelly so what you're saying is that the school won't cover this that thoroughly but parents will need to do plenty of research in order to properly fill in the gaps when their DC come home disturbed by something they've been poorly taught in class.

No, I’m saying that you need to fill in the gaps for yourself, regardless of what your children do or don’t need to know. The level of ignorance on this thread is exactly why education is needed.

I didn’t mention white European girls, I mentioned white people - I’m pretty sure Europe isn’t the only continent with a white population.

dd is in year 8 and studying - climate change with emphasis on end of life and world disaster, the Gothic in English Lit where they watched The Woman in Black and Crimson Peak and the Holocaust in History, suicide in PSHE. And we wonder why kids are struggling mentally these days.

Lots of pre-teens/teens are fascinated about dark themes in culture hence the popularity of stuff like Black Mirror, Hunger Games, 13 Reasons Why etc My dd was actually really pleased to study Frankenstein for GCSE and know what the real story was about. She had a lot of preconceptions based on the Halloween image so was surprised that it was very different. A group of year 8s on a sleepover - one of them will suggest a horror film.
Considering how many y8s have seen 13 Reasons Why, I think it's very appropriate to discuss suicide in PSHE. A major cause of Male suicide is often attributed to a lack of talking to others and discussing it openly could lead to someone feeling less alone. There's a lot of stigma towards mental health problems. It may be better than the past but there's a long way to go.
Studying the Holocaust- that's a no-brainer. There are survivors still alive today and I think that it's basic knowledge that all kids should have.

I think that the biggest pressures on teens stem from the exam system, social media etc

I’m saying that you need to fill in the gaps for yourself, regardless of what your children do or don’t need to know. The level of ignorance on this thread is exactly why education is needed.

I have no interest in learning anything further about this barbaric practice, or filling in any gaps in my child’s knowledge. It’s utterly irrelevant to me and to her.

What other populations Jelly. Seems to be mainly in Africa?

Lots of pre-teens/teens are fascinated about dark themes in culture hence the popularity of stuff like Black Mirror, Hunger Games, 13 Reasons Why etc My dd was actually really pleased to study Frankenstein for GCSE and know what the real story was about. She had a lot of preconceptions based on the Halloween image so was surprised that it was very different. A group of year 8s on a sleepover - one of them will suggest a horror film

Not all teens. My year 8 hates scary stuff. Hates it. She's not squeamish and can deal with real life injuries and is interested in how the body works but she's not interested or stimulated by dark scary stuff. Nor was my dd2 at 12 although at 16 she's more fascinated. My 12 year old certainly has no interest in 13 reasons why, even my 19 year old thought it was nasty and exploitative.

I have no interest in learning anything further about this barbaric practice, or filling in any gaps in my child’s knowledge. It’s utterly irrelevant to me and to her

I do think it's important to learn about it but it can be touched on when teens are much older.

It's not their problem and they shouldn't be made to feel that its something they can do anything about. If social workers cant deal with it then why should teachers have to? Are we naive enough to think if we tell girls at 6 that its wrong that these girls will stand up to their parents?

You can read and enjoy Frankenstein without having watched Black mirror et al

“I have no interest in learning anything further about this barbaric practice, or filling in any gaps in my child’s knowledge. It’s utterly irrelevant to me and to her.”

Fuck me, some people are callous.

so, from the NHS website:
Communities at particular risk of FGM in the UK originate from:
Egypt
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Gambia
Guinea
Indonesia
Ivory Coast
Kenya
Liberia
Malaysia
Mali
Nigeria
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Sudan
Yemen

From the WHO:
The practice is most common in the western, eastern, and north-eastern regions of Africa, in some countries the Middle East and Asia, as well as among migrants from these areas. FGM is therefore a global concern.

Jelly can you tell me which of those countries/areas have substantial white populations where this practice might be common?