FGM on year 5 school curriculum

[MermaidMummy]

I'm really not sure if I'm being unreasonable, so I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.
My 9-year-old's class has just started learning about puberty. We have been told that the next lesson will cover terminology such as erection, sperm and female genital mutilation.
I just don't get why they need to learn about FGM at 9 years old. Some of these kids are very "young" for their age, and mine is very sensitive (won't watch the news in case an "adult topic" crops up).
What is the rationale for teaching this in year 5? There is nobody in the class from a cultural background likely to carry out FGM, but even if there was, would a 9 year-old know that it might happen to them and inform a teacher (if that is the rationale for teaching it)? From what I have read they aren't told anything about it in advance. If it has already happened to them, what is the benefit of bringing it up in class? Couldn't it be damaging and stigmatising?

KatieHack

YABU. Imagine if one of your child’s friends were to confide in them about potentially being subject to this horrific practise. It’s horrendous that this is even a thing but children do need to be educated about it, if only to keep them safe. Xx

I think my child would know , without being taught about it, that another child saying they'd been taken on holiday and had their private parts cut with a razor is a horrible thing. And she would 100% tell me if any child told her this.

The school should teach children to tell their parent or teacher if another chikd mentiond having been hurt or harmed by another relative.

If your child’s friend told her that her uncle was saying inappropriate things to her, would you want your child to know what to do with that information? Yes? Why is that any different?
This.
We spend time telling children to tell a trusted adult if they feel unsafe or upset or are being bullied or being harmed...

... oh but just not in this specific way because telling children this specific type of harm is wrong is a burden.

If one of my child's friends told my child that someone had cut her vagina, my child would know that was something worth telling me. She wouldn't need the school to sit down having a happy clappy chat about how some cultures do things a bit differently to think it was fucking wrong.

I really do hope the posters here saying how brilliant it is are petitioning their own child's primary to ensure it is discussed. Somehow I bet they aren't.

LolaSmiles

We spend time telling children to tell a trusted adult if they feel unsafe or upset or are being bullied or being harmed...

... oh but just not in this specific way because telling children this specific type of harm is wrong is a burden. hmm

Nonsense. Surely "upset" or "being harmed" includes FGM without having to name or describe it, much like you wouldn't talk specifically about "child molestation" and what it entails (at this age).

What about child traficking and child prostitution? Are these topics brought up in school as early as year 5? They are also barbaric and affect more communities than FGM does, I should imagine.

According to the findings, approximately 103,000 women aged 15-49 were estimated to be at risk from FGM in England and Wales, with a further 24,000 women aged over 50. Nearly 10,000 girls aged 0-14 were also identified in England and Wales as being at risk of FGM at some point in their lives.

I think awareness is only a positive thing, right? This goes on in the UK in lots of areas. They don't fly these children back to their home countries to do this either, it could be happening in a house next door to you.

My son is 7 and I have told him in a child friendly manner about child molestation; why wouldn't you??

I have told him that his penis, testicles and bum are private. And that other people's are private too. You do not touch other people's, and they certainly should not touch yours in any way. And I have told him to not keep body secrets from me etc etc.....

God forbid if my son ever has to go through something so traumatic, but if there is a time, then at least I know or really hope he knows it's not right and to tell me.

Why would it happen to over 50s?

OP - yes, I agree that DD would know to tell such a thing to me without having to go into the specifics that FGM is an actual thing done to girls.

Frankly, I think it would be more constructive to inform parents that there are girls at risk in their DC’s school and what to do if they had concerns.

MermaidMummy
Typically you start introducing PSHE topics before they are likely to be encountered by students otherwise it's a bit late.

E g. When I was in school sex ed was during y10. The issue is a sizable number of students were already sexually active in some way, but it was probably done at 15 because someone somewhere decided 'they're just kids' and wanted to protect our innocence. We did the biology basics further down the school but then sex and relationships education was much later, or to quote a friend 'they tell you how babies are made but wait 4 years to tell you how to stop it'.

For example sexting and peer to peer child pornography used to be a KS4/5 topic but it's fairly common in schools to teach it during year 8 because we know that by y9 and 10 it's too late for a surprising number of students. I was initially shocked at the idea of covering it, but it makes sense to. Giving students the information and facts before they become exposed to it another way is a sensible thing to do, however uncomfortable it may feel for the adults who'd like to think no child would be sending or making such content.

Child sexual exploitation also tends to be covered more in ks3 than ks4 because we want students to be aware of healthy vs predatory relationships, the manipulation, coercion etc before they risk being a target for these people.

Previously online safety and CEOPS sessions were KS3 but the vast majority of our pupils have had talks on online safety and how to report abuse or inappropriate content in KS2.

If FGM is known to occur from y6 upwards then an age appropriate explanation is perfectly reasonable.

We spend time telling children to tell a trusted adult if they feel unsafe or upset or are being bullied or being harmed...

Yes, but we don’t go into graphic examples.

If they’re mature enough to handle it, and make objective judgments on the subject matter, and asses whether their friends are at risk, why not discuss paedophilia? Incest? Rape? Domestic violence? Contraception? Abortion? All of which are likely to be pertinent to girls from all cultures.

IsabellaLinton
What a graphic about an age appropriate explanation?

We had training on county lines and child sexual exploitation. We deliver PSHE on some of those topics. We don't deliver year 8 PSHE in the same way our staff training was. Year 7 PSHE on safeguarding is not the same as year 11. We come back to topics introduced in year 5 and 6 and once they are older they get more information. Our primary colleagues do an excellent job.

Anyone would think staff were trained in how to deliver material in an age appropriate and sensitive way.

Anyone would think staff were trained in how to deliver material in an age appropriate and sensitive way

They may well be, that’s not my issue. I don’t think it should be an educational topic in school at all, no matter how sensitivity handled.

What a graphic about an age appropriate explanation?

The subject material itself. If other people are happy for their young daughters to be educated on the subject - that’s fine, they can attend the lessons. I’m not - mine won’t be attending.

There's nothing to stop parents from explaining these issues to their own 9-year-old children, if they feel it is helpful/beneficial. There are plenty of topics that come up at home that we discuss openly but I wouldn't want or expect to be taught at school. Parents who don't want their child exposed to details of FGM shouldn't have to pull them out of their sex ed class at school. It isn't sex ed...it is abuse.

I don’t think it should be an educational topic in school at all, no matter how sensitivity handled.
Which is why it's good that people with a broader overview make decisions about what it taught in schools because there's always some who think their opinion overrides the benefit in a topic being covered.

I was shocked and very uncomfortable with some of what was moved into KS3 PSHE, but on reflection and after training I can see why it's important to set aside my personal feelings and give information in an appropriate way.

MermaidMummy
That's great you talk about all those topics at home.

But not all children do.

The fact that schools keep being told to teach basic life skills (e.g. basic meals, if you spend more than you earn you get into debt, etc) is because the response yo every social issue at the moment is 'make schools teach it' seemingly because it's too much to expect parents to have conversations with their kids. Some stuff I find ridiculous that it is pushed onto schools. Things to do with safeguarding are a necessary and sad part of the job though.

I wish I didn't have to hear 13 year olds the issues in sharing peer created explicit images of children, but the reality is there's parents out there who think it wouldn t happen to their child, it doesn't affect their child, their child isn't even interested in dating and certainly wouldn't be sexting because they look awkward when someone kisses on Corrie.

As a teacher it's not the kids themselves that report they think they are at risk of FGM, it's the friends they confide in. If it helps prevent just one case for kids to be aware of the warning flags, then it's most definitely worth it

What are the warning flags that 8 year olds need to be aware of?

It's easy to think that a child would go to an adult if a friend said she had been cut with a razor blade, of course most of them would. But what if that's not how the friend said it. What if it was a ritual, or an operation or a rite of passage? What if they normalised it, because they were brought up with that being how things were done? Would a 9 year old know that was wrong and that they should report it? My 9 year old brother wouldn't.

I can't believe that teachers would expect 8 year olds to look for warning signs and report this. Why aren't the teachers looking for the fucking warning signs? Let the adults deal with it rather than expecting kids to sort it out.

And of course the reason i can't believe it is because it doesnt actually happen.

Fibbke - my year 9 dd has found this years curriculum truly depressing to the point at which maths is now her favourite subject as nothing miserable can be taught in it. Other subjects have included the topics of serial killers, dystopian fiction, holocaust, homelessness, rape, abortion, euthanasia, World War I poetry. I’m not sure it’s good for their mental health.

No i don't think it is. I think its completely unnecessary.

In her circle this year there has been a drug overdose, a child developing severe school phobia, two cases of self-harm, and one child on anti-depressants. It’s really not much fun there.

I feel awful saying this but we've had a small inheritance and decided to move dd to private school for year 9. Lots of sport and a far less depressing curriculum.