AIBU to think there is something a bit 'wrong' about the D-Day commemorations

[KittyC4]

I really cannot put my finger on exactly what it is. However, there just seems to be something really wrong about the way the Normandy Landings are being commemorated.

I have utter respect for the veterans and I can share the sense of loss for all the people (military and civilians) who lost their lives on both sides. Yet, the whole public spectacle of the events seems to be at odds with theme of remembrance.

It could be that the context of Brexit, President Trump's visit and the Anglocentric focus of the events is making me interpret the events as a sad reflection of this country's obsession with past 'glories', but am I the only person to feel there is just something wrong about the way this event is being 'remembered'?

While I was watching it on the TV I mused to DH about what the generation of 18-30s now would be like if faced with that situation...

Do you mean the 1000s of young men and women who have served in Afghan and Iraq? 100s who have died, 1000s who have been injured?

Or do you mean the 150,000 predominantly young men and women who serve in our armed forces today?

There isn't a parallel universe, so we don't know what the EU/EEC has done or not, in regard to promoting peace in europe.

It's doubtless the combined structures of international organisations that has helped promote peace, including the EU and NATO.

What struck me listening to these veterans over the last few days is that time and time again, they are concerned we are ripping up europe again and forgetting peace is fragile.

Our generation is no less likely to go to war than any other.

It's about respect for the generations that came before us
For the sacrifices that many people made

Thank you for discussing this topic. I must clarify one point and that is that I have utmost respect for the veterans, and for the thousands of people affected by conflict, past and present. My late father served in WW2, though he was not a D-Day veteran.

I think it is the context in which the commemorations occurred that makes me uncomfortable. The context of an attempt to move away from an alliance with Europe and to court favour with the US on the grounds of some mythical 'special relationship'. It is the fact that as the old men remember those who died to save Europe from Fascism, we are seeing xenophobia and Far Right politics rise again.

These are, of course, just my views.

Really??? Whilst there are still men that as teenagers jumped off a boat into a minefield with rockets and guns being fired at them to free the world of one of the most evil regimes it has ever witnessed we cab celebrate their bravery and remember their friends with them who died to make sure the world wasn't taken over by this regime.

What these men did and experienced as boys is beyond the comprehension of people today.

I've seen similar thoughts on other media so certainly not alone. I think, having followed more of the American side of it, it did have a tint of what tearsinmybeer said for me so mixed feelings on the treatment by those doing the ceremonies (not the veterans or their family, but the politicians and such).

It also always feels, to me, a bit...purposeful is the only word I can think of, that the 'this brought your freedom to do...' is always connected to fighting foreign powers when really, freedom of expression and similar, was mainly fought against powers within our own countries, against our own people in power, not usually a threat from outside. Just being able to have any say in one's employer is something people of the past had to fight for. My local area has annual events to remember some strikes and protests, but it's very rarely portrayed in the light that what they did means we have the rights we have today, even though many people died trying to make our daily lives better in so many ways. There is something, to me, a bit off in how it's all framed, especially when with all the political over it, so many veterans then and now are left and treated as worse than trash, let alone heroes.

"Does anyone else think that far right groups use events like this to glorify war rather than see it as a warning?"

Yes, absolutely.

And watching Trump who courts the far right 'honouring' those who sacrificed their lives fighting it, really sticks in my craw.

And Daily Mail journos. Happy to be interviewed on the BBC talking about our heroes when they work for a shit rag that talks up the far right now just as it did with the Black Shirts.

YABVU - enough to wonder about your motives in posting it.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

We remember the sacrifice of a largely conscription army - who didnt want to be there but knew their duty - so that we are less likely to repeat it. The veterans remind us of the friends they lost, the commentary on Prince Charles looking at the gravestones made the point about their young age. The emphasis is not on glorfiying war but on remembering, to quote MASH, that in war young men die even if you sometimes you need to fight for freedom.

My grandfather (Royal Army Medical Corp) landed on Sword beach, 6th June, 1944. He was shot on 6th June and died on 13th June. He is buried in Hermanville war cemetery.

We will remember them.

While I was watching it on the TV I mused to DH about what the generation of 18-30s now would be like if faced with that situation

How offensive to the thousands of 18-30 YO that have served since.

YABU OP, We should always remember what they gave their life for. I found myself quite teary eyed when watching the interviews of the survivors talking about their time at war.

First paragraph was meant to be bold*

While I was watching it on the TV I mused to DH about what the generation of 18-30s now would be like if faced with that situation

what about the 30-90 yr olds- shouldn't we wonder about what they would do/would have done too?

I don't think the commemorations are about obsessions With past glories. I think they are about remembering the huge sacrifice an entire generation made, and as it turns out a bit of a warning (from some of the veterans themselves) to do everything we can go avoid that necessity again at all costs.

I don't think anyone questions the importance of remembering and honouring history. I think, rightly, many here, including OP (and thanks to those who responded to me, still pretty new here) question the sincerity of some of those behind creating and curating the memorials.

I was lucky enough to grow up and hear the stories from many WWI/WWII vets themselves. That was moving, and there should forever be a forum for ex-service people to share their stories and educate future generations.

I will never, ever, support remembrances that focus more on nationalism or the leaders of countries who continue to send our families to war. Especially when leaders are welcomed who have OPENLY MOCKED ex-soldiers (Trump in regards to McCain) and welcome them into their fray.

This is a story of those who fought, not of who sent them to their deaths. I hope their stories are forever told.

Just imagine for one minuet how those men felt. How exhausted and seasick they must have felt. How full of dread. They had mostly all written the ‘last letters’ to their loved ones. Dunkirk had been a shit storm and the knew this. They watched their friends and comrades get mowed down - my sisters’ father-in-law had half of his platoon shot (men split into 2 groups and one group was completely wiped out).

Some of those who survived are still alive. They saw first hand men ripped apart, drowned, shot. Most didn’t discuss it for years afterwards - I know my grandad didn’t. He joked about being a fast runner but we know where he was and when - and it was in some of the most shittiest fights and campaigns. He died when I was 3 and I didn’t really understand.

It is the fact that as the old men remember those who died to save Europe from Fascism, we are seeing xenophobia and Far Right politics rise again. I agree with you OP.

I was at a ceremony in France yesterday surrounded by 800 who did not go home to their loved ones around the world.
We remembered those that had fallen, but the speeches linked in 'now' and the future, although not mentioning Brexit there is real concern where a disunited Europe may end up.

Have read some (but not all of the thread).

My main worry is that once those who were there are no longer with us I hope we can still do them justice. Often I read on mumsnet how people over a certain shouldn't vote. Astonishing. These men and women have braved things we can only wake up screaming about. Their vote counts. Their views count. Their experience teaches us.

I'm in awe of anyone who goes to war and has to face conflict. I hope our population will always give them the recognition.

PPs are correct about the rise of the far right. Please do not try to make half the population (including many of these wise gentlemen and ladies) into right wing extremists. Bad form indeed.

huge respect for all the veterans - and these in particular...
www.peoples-vote.uk/more_than_120_veterans_sign_open_letter_against_brexit_on_75th_anniversary_of_d_day

Bloody patronising shite IMO

I think it is the context in which the commemorations occurred that makes me uncomfortable. The context of an attempt to move away from an alliance with Europe and to court favour with the US on the grounds of some mythical 'special relationship'. It is the fact that as the old men remember those who died to save Europe from Fascism, we are seeing xenophobia and Far Right politics rise again.

I completely agree with this, KittyC4, and I think the near-hysteria from some of the posters disagreeing with you, or outraged that you even question the context of the commemorations, only reinforces your point.

One of the soldiers who was interviewed was absolutely appalled by Brexit and stressed how important it was to keep Europe together and for the UK to be part of it. Yet Trump and his hand-holding ally, May, who have both repeatedly sewed the seeds of division, were two of the main figures in the commemorations. Of course it feels uncomfortable because there is a certain amount of hypocrisy involved. When I heard May talk about the sacrifices those men had made for democracy and I thought about how she and her party had traduced our democracy with a referendum based on lies, with the betrayal of the Windrush generation, with go-home vans, with one in ten EU citizens in the UK denied the right to vote in the Euro elections, and with a reduction in educational opportunities for the less well off, I was angry. I am very politically engaged, but I don't think you need to be politically engaged to pick up on the inconsistencies.

The soldiers of WWII fought for a better future. Since 2010, we have seen our chances of that get much more fragile, and life expectancy has stalled, and in some cases is decreasing, in this country. Politicians should be learning from wartime values but instead they are spinning these commemorations in order to pick up some reflected glory.

Of course it does: collaboration and cooperation between member states is great for peace and unity. Have you tried herding the EU cats recently? Look a tad more closely at the huge cracks opening up - Poland and Hungary to be sanctioned, Italy on the cusp of having an alternative currency; the damage that will be done to Germany if the Target 2 debts are crystallised, the ECB being out of ammunition, problems in Greece still.

Quite, @scaryteacher. It is absolutely possible to have harmonious cooperation without being part of the same political union.

Harmony and peace is what most people want, I assume.

Quite, scaryteacher. It is absolutely possible to have harmonious cooperation without being part of the same political union

Yes all well and good but we've a system that has worked for 75 years, yes of course, NATO, Nuclear weapons etc etc have all helped European peace, i accept that but its churlish to suggest that the EEC/EU and the emphasis on trade, regulation, political co-operation has also played its part.

The problem with Brexit isn't that we leave the EU, its that we are going to do so in a destructive an economically damaging way (for all)
Brexit in reality is a 10/15 year project, not 2 years with a split minority govt in charge.
Just look at how long far smaller projects take, both in planning and execution?