AIBU to think there is something a bit 'wrong' about the D-Day commemorations

[KittyC4]

I really cannot put my finger on exactly what it is. However, there just seems to be something really wrong about the way the Normandy Landings are being commemorated.

I have utter respect for the veterans and I can share the sense of loss for all the people (military and civilians) who lost their lives on both sides. Yet, the whole public spectacle of the events seems to be at odds with theme of remembrance.

It could be that the context of Brexit, President Trump's visit and the Anglocentric focus of the events is making me interpret the events as a sad reflection of this country's obsession with past 'glories', but am I the only person to feel there is just something wrong about the way this event is being 'remembered'?

I wasn’t sure about the costumes, dancing, Sheridan Smith trying to start a singalong etc. Didn’t really seem in keeping with what should really be a solemn occasion. It was a D Day anniversary, not the Proms.

It all feels a bit pointless when you've got the Queen and co. licking Trump's arse. Puts me in mind of photos of the old Duke rubbing shoulders with Ribbentrop et al.

I have my fathers call up papers telling him to report to training camp - they arrived on D Day - he missed it all by a whisker, all down to the time of his birth.
4 of his friends who were born earlier in the year were not so lucky - he remembers them and the tears on knowing it could so easily have been him are as genuine now as they were when he found out they had died.

He said he was waiting for the papers and his mum had packed his suitcase ready to leave.

But for ....

I thought now of all times it is very important to remember what Europe went through and all the good people who fought for it. There is nothing wrong with that. The Vera Lynn song by the way was very popular and liked beyond Britain (my mum got emotional hearing it and she's not even a Brit).
The only issue I had was with Trump's emphasis on America ONLY in his speech yesterday. It was right to pay respects to the US army of course but it wasn't the right forum for a nationalist speech.

@tearinmybeer completely agree with you. I think half of the reason they wouldn't have got away with all of this in the 70s is that there were far too many people who knew that war on a massive scale wasn't something to be celebrated.

IMO the BBC coverage of it all was very beautiful and emotional..they are telling us a story of facts. A timeline of how and what it was like.

Reading the letters from petrified soldiers to their families, the images and footage playing in the background..the war veterans getting upset.
It was all extremely emotive to say the least!

I love history, but there were things that I learnt from the coverage.

It's not glorifying war.

'Lest we forget'

Very important and well done. Much more relevant now than ever with rising anti semitism.

It was exactly the right forum for a nationalistic speech. What on earth else did you think it was all about? WWII wasn't a struggle between objective good and objective evil and Hitler wasn't the boogeyman.

It was exactly the right forum for a nationalistic speech. What on earth else did you think it was all about?

Peace and reconciliation among nations.

It seemed to me that it was rightfully based on everything the veterans wanted to remember. The war was the best of times and the worst of times, and the singing and dancing were a fitting tribute to the happier aspects of their experience, alongside the sad and moving stories. I thought it was all really well done.

It is celebrating those that fought for our freedom! We would be living in a very different world right now if those brave men had not gone to fight for us!

As a serving soldier's wife you have really angered me, I wonder if you realise there are still men and women putting their lives at risk on a daily basis to keep us all safe!

I know what you mean, OP. The most effective (if that’s the right word) military commemoration for me was Jeremy Deller’s work which took place on the 1st July 2016 to commemorate the first day of the Battle of the Somme. 1500 ‘ghost soldiers’ planted in groups in mundane settings across the UK. There was no announcement or explanation, they just appeared , these groups of living WWI soldiers. Was like peering through time back to 1916. I found it unbelievably moving.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36682140

@BogglesGoggles

Well I mean without it we’d probably be living under nazi rule or a post nazi shithole along with the rest of Europe

No we wouldn't. Not only was Germany seriously weakened after its battles with Russia before D-day, it was never actually capable of launching a successful invasion of Britain.

Germany had a naval force of about 60 ships of various sizes. Britain had a naval force of around 430 ships.

Beard At JSCSC they teach Just War theory (arguably much older than Clausewitz), and that war is the last resort when diplomacy has failed.

Helmet EU unity and peace It isn't the EU (or the ECSC) that has kept the peace in Europe; it is NATO, (which had its 70th birthday this year, predates the ECSC), and the willingness of the US to pick up the defence tab for Europe since 1949.

but if anything, it will hopefully stir the resolve of those of us against fascism/ultra-nationalism and who are for EU unity and peace.

What exactly did you object to that sentence - can you clarify please?

@scaryteacher rofl JCSC taught me very little (bde tactics ) but just war theory was interesting. But Jus Ad Bellum was right for WWII - there is no doubt about that, but it still proves the point that beyond politics lies warfare— it is an extension rather than a separation, and remembrance is still highly political! it is important to be able to apply critical thinking and spot historic signs of looming warfare in our present - which only (arguably) those politicos who attended have the (current) capacity to influence.

I don’t know- it feels somewhat perverse when you imagine in 50 years, the twin towers or the boxing day tsunami being remembered similarly .. they’re all still tragedies. It just so happens that this tragedy is mixed up in victory.

@Buccanarab do you think it wouldn’t have eventually recovered and invaded? I struggle to imagine an alternative reality where the vast majority of Western Europe is under long term nazi occupation and Britain is left in peace. But then again who knows. Often what happens is that these regimes expand quickly then just use most of their resources maintain control. But even then aspirations of expansion usually crop back up sooner or later. Soviet Russia provides an interesting example of an initial expansion in the 20s/30s immediately followed by the worst period of authoritarianism of the regime and then it’s attentions soon enoughturned to Afghanistan although it was ultimately a failure. Perhaps we would be living in subdued economic conditions with a very unpleasant neighbour. Either way, not pleasant.

@helmetbymidnight isn’t striving for EU unity and peace instead of global unity and peace a bit similar to nationalism. The burgeoning ‘EU’ identity is very off. It occurs within a wider global context of a slow down of globalism in favour of an increase in regional trading patterns and increasingly vocal and accepted alt right politics. One wonders which is the cause and which is the effect.

Helmet Because the EU doesn't provide either peace or unity. It's NATO that does that via Article 5.

Beard Agree we need to look to the past to spot trouble in the future, but sometimes, you just can't see it.

I think 9/11 will be remembered hopefully for the bravery shown by those going into the Towers to give aid and rescue people, as much as for it being the first shot in the current war being played out around the globe. I think the nature of warfare is changing hugely and is being fought on different fields to the normal three of sea, land and air. I think the hybrid approach employed by Putin makes it especially difficult, but this seems to be the face and shape of things to come. He certainly blindsided a lot of people post Sochi with his move into Crimea.

The other problem of course, is that the signs might be there, and people can be reading them, but the politicians don't want to hear what is being said, and then expect the military to dig them out a hole.

Dh learned a fair bit at JSCSC; he was on the DS. Came in handy for later jobs.

FWIW..

Four of my young ancestors are on the Theipval memorial one of them was 17, seems he took on a German machine gun nest single handed why he didnt get a posthounus medal seems unjust!.

None of them were over 22 years old!.

In WW2 my dad was arming Spitfies and Hurricanes in the battle of Britain at Duxford my uncle was repairiing them as soon as he could more often that not he was working on them whe the lads were scrambled and often the glue etc wasnt set or tools were left in them!

My Aunt, a real glamour puss! was aiding the war effort by entertaining the Yanks who turned up, there were fist fights as to who got to take her out whoever had the Nylons won the day imagine something that in its day was an iphone 21 same desirable thing. Old dad went to Africaa got shot up a bit at El-Alamein as did uncle lost half a hand never once heard them complaing .

Trump?. Like or loath him he was democratly elected so thats what they fought for;!

Two other aspects;

If the battle of Britain hadnt taken place, the Royal Navey hadn't been really tested and it would have been intersting to see if they could have kept the Nazis out?

And..

What if we hadnt invaded, this was June 1944 I wonder what might have happened around a year or so later?

6th August anyone;?.

I think we owe thew amercians despite my dad and mates saying;

Thery're overpaid, oversexed and over here!

And anyone who didnt shed the odd tear yesterday as the old men were around can't be human!, well done all of you old boy's

Bless you all:)

It was for the veterans, that amazing resilient generation who gave their lives and their youth to quash fascism. My parents’ generation. If they are happy with how their achievements, courage and losses are marked, that’s good enough for me.

It wasn't 'anglocentric', there were separate events for the American, Canadian and French, the UK media chose, rightly, to concentrate on the events involving the British contingent although some of the other events were shown.

The British, in actual fact.

Nor even them.

There were apparently around 11,000 New Zealanders involved in the landings.

Isn’t striving for EU unity and peace instead of global unity and peace a bit similar to nationalism*

Er no. Why on earth would peace in Europe come 'instead of' global unity, and not 'as well as'?

Because the EU doesn't provide either peace or unity

Of course it does: collaboration and cooperation between member states is great for peace and unity. You can easily say the EU is not the only thing that helps peace and unity in Europe but the idea that it doesn't provide or promote any peace or unity at all is just rubbish.