To ask you to stop flying

[Walkingthere]

We are facing a climate disaster. Our children will have to live through it. And yet I overheard two women today discussing how many holidays abroad they had been on this year. Both over 60 years of age. Obviously it will not directly impact on them.
This is also very common in my social group, people jetting off 4-5 times a year. Mini-breaks, weekends away, European trips, long haul, hen do's, weddings, birthdays. It's unbelievable how much people are burying their heads in the sand.

We need to stop flying. Urgently. Now. My family have not flown in over 5 years. We used to travel a lot, before we realised the consequences. I am putting this here, to make people think, we all need to urgently reduce (ideally stop) flying now.

Whosorrynow but if we keep going with this pyramid mentality we will just keep making the problem worse and worse.

Tbh we spend a lot of time and resources extending people’s lives beyond what many of us would think as being good. My dad has been in hospital for a long time, reoccursnt infections, beaten each time being pumped full of antibiotics. I can see he’s pretty much content that his life is coming to a close but still everyone keeps prodding and poking, nagging him to get up and try walking. He’s tired. We need to readjust what looks good in the care of the elderly

If we limit the amount of children that people can have we will end up with an increasingly ageing and frail population with no young people to help keep them alive

Right? But that's the idea isn't it, for the overall population to be decreased!

Without new young people coming through with new ideas human culture will die, technological progress will grind to a halt and stop

Without new young people coming through with new ideas human culture will die, technological progress will grind to a halt and stop

Again, who has said no one is allowed to have children?

Are the majority of mumsnet posters city dwellers? I read so many posts, like this one, being critical of a poster for running two cars. When you live in a rural area there is very little choice. There is no public transport, the nearest school and doctors surgery is seven miles away. A taxi to the nearest town is £15 so £30 for a return trip. Stop giving the poster a hard time for running two cars when we don't know her circumstances.

Haven't read the thread. My 2p worth.

Advocating for people to voluntarily stop flying is a complete waste of the time and energy of everyone on either side of the argument. It has zero chance of having any impact, ever.

Flying needs to have a carbon tax built into the cost of fuel. (I've no idea what the state of play is with regard to this.) Raising the cost of using fossil fuels may cause a reduction in flying, to the extent it causes a rise in price. However in the long term, there is no need for people to fly any less than they do now, as it is technically possible to manufacture carbon-neutral fuels.

If you told people that we are going to phase out fossil fuel use by 2050, which will make flying more expensive (but not impossible) as more expensive carbon-neutral fuel is phased in, that would be a message people might actually accept.

Courtesy of people like Biker.

Yeah, because only people who fly cause climate change 🙄

It's actually because of attitudes like that

user1497787065 she can move. She is happy with people whose families are all around the world, being told if they want to see them they should move to where they are.

I live rurally. I need a car. I dint object to her having 2 cars. I do object to her having 2 cars, and telling people they shouldnt fly. They should just move or all the other things she isnt willing to do.

Thing is you can all argue as much as you like and all viewpoints have their merit, but eventually governments ARE forced to act and will act otherwise society will descend into chaos caused by environmental breakdown. So either societal breakdown or government restricting human activity or more likely a combination of the two happening simultaneously.
Years ago if you'd told people they'd have to separate out their rubbish they'd have all said you won't get me doing that mate! Now it's accepted that we have to and there are sanctions if you persistently ignore. Govts will take control of polluting activities, and flying is a huge one - it's what they're there for, to tell us what to do because we are so unable to do the mature thing ourselves. It will become less and less acceptable to fly because you feel like it.

Or is it just other peoples kids you dont mind starving?

What do you think about the 15,000 children who die daily of starvation around the planet, exacerbated by climate change?

What are we doing to help them?

It's actually because of attitudes like that

No it isn't, it's because people are selfish and don't want to change any part of their lives to help save the planet.

If we limit the amount of children that people can have we will end up with an increasingly ageing and frail population with no young people to help keep them alive

That's the point. Less young people, reduce the population.

However, the way to balance this in the immediate future, is to not keep older people alive.

Again, not sure how many people would be happy with this route.

I wouldn't, mind not being kept alive in old age.

But this is all about what people in general are happy with.

It seems people cant agree.

Someone, somewhere is going to make hard decisions somewhere.

I agree with SoupDragon about Biker.

The pile in over flying is almost (not completely) meaningless, you still don't know that your overall footprint is smaller than theirs.

My vision of the future is that bulk of Europe's power will come from solar, with the solar electricity being piped in mainly from North Africa. Wherever liquid fuels are needed, such as at airports, they can be manufactured on the spot, the only raw ingredient needed is carbon dioxide extracted from air.

Carbon neutral fuels can power planes, cars and ships that were built to use fossil fuels. For that reason, I am not sure about the inevitability of electric cars.

When I was googling recently I think there was a pilot project currently being set up at an airport in the Netherlands to trial fuel manufacture.

All the not flying in the world won't offset the increase in population by 2030. Or 2040. Or 205.

surely if everyone refuses to voluntarily change their ways then the only option will be legislation and then everyone will whine about a nanny state.

(Personally I think it's down to people like the absolute idiot upthread who flew fortnightly from Bahrain to Dubai to get her hair done.)

It doesn't actually matter what the OP has or hasn't done herself, I've read enough of these threads to know that the same excuses and justifications and 'I couldn't care less, I want to fly more now' posts will come out every single time. The OP could have a carbon footprint of 0 and the responses would be the same.

I wouldn't, mind not being kept alive in old age.

I'm guessing that this is something a lot of people say when they're young or middle-aged and then begin to reconsider when old age looms.

What do you think about the 15,000 children who die daily of starvation around the planet, exacerbated by climate change

I get what you are saying. Something needs to change.

However, how can you be ok with damaging children who are already alive now, is this country?

If we withdraw support in this country for children. We wouldnt be sending any money abroad. Those children you are talking about would still be in poverty and not be saved.

Either we pick survival of the fittest and each country look after their own or we work as a wider world.

Slowly reducing support for future kids, I get. But there are always outliers. People who need support later. Withdrawing support for kids and not looking after the most vulnerable in society isnt an option.

As I said. I have one child. For many reasons, which includes coming from a huge family where everyone thinks their 'one more wont make a difference'.

Now I have 44 cousins.

One additional child adds 60 tonnes of carbon emissions a year. One transatlantic flight adds 1 tonne.

If you have three kids you are contributing 180 extra tonnes of carbon a year but go ahead and blame the fliers.

What @sparklesocks said.

I've tried looking for actual studies on this OP and I can't find any. Random websites aren't good enough as they all have their own agenda.

You can't tell people to cut their flying and unfortunately, your post does come across like you're on your high horse there.

There are many contributing factors to global warming. Farming and agriculture is a big one too - are you switching to a plant based diet at all? Are you campaigning against companies that drain our earth's resources in huge quanities?

I don't fly often. The last time I flew was 2016. Before then it was 2002. I'm not going to stop flying when I finally do get to go abroad again. Yes, I do what I can to minimise my impact and my footprint. Yes, I will spread the word about it. No, I will not outright tell people they are irresponsible and shouldn't fly ever again.

the carbon cost of children can be reduced if we all live more sustainable lifestyles
There is no way to reduce the carbon cost of a flight which is powered by fossil fuels.
In the longer term I think we can find sustainable and clean ways of powering our travel, then we can all travel without harming our environment

Flying needs to have a carbon tax built into the cost of fuel.

Good luck with that. Aircraft fuel isn’t even taxed.

Yeah, because only people who fly cause climate change 🙄

Not just flying. Mass tourism is bad for the environment as well, tourists bring money but they also use up resources, generate a lot of waste and need the supporting infrastructure, mass tourism kills the very places people live visiting.

Not sure about what attitude you are talking about, the rudest and most inconsiderate replies have been from people who insist they will keep flying.