To ask you to stop flying

[Walkingthere]

We are facing a climate disaster. Our children will have to live through it. And yet I overheard two women today discussing how many holidays abroad they had been on this year. Both over 60 years of age. Obviously it will not directly impact on them.
This is also very common in my social group, people jetting off 4-5 times a year. Mini-breaks, weekends away, European trips, long haul, hen do's, weddings, birthdays. It's unbelievable how much people are burying their heads in the sand.

We need to stop flying. Urgently. Now. My family have not flown in over 5 years. We used to travel a lot, before we realised the consequences. I am putting this here, to make people think, we all need to urgently reduce (ideally stop) flying now.

Is your desire to go on a long haul holiday every year more than your desire to have a second child?

That's not an equal offset though. The second child is far more damaging. Would it be better.

I dont really get why companies fly people around so much any more.

My companies has implemented WFH minimum for 2 days per week for all office staff. This was after a consultation between the company, employees and local council on reducing emissions and travel into the city.

Our head office is in the US, it's rare anyone actually flies over and only do so when theres thing we needs to be present for, like scoping if a technology can be used in the UK and need to see it used.

I have about 8 video conferences with the US a week. The US team came here once for this project. Everything else is done on video conference. I am mor convinced that companies need to fly people around the world as much as they do.

Doesnt make sense though. If they reduced it, they would save money and help the environment. Seems like a win win.

We need to stop flying. Urgently. Now.

I think there are many many other things we need to stop doing urgently that have more impact.

I think the government should ration flights so everyone has an allowance. We are trying to cut down but love travel. Trying to switch to train.

I agree but, It would make more sense to ration how many children people can have first.

Not sure how many people would be happy with this.

It would make more sense to ration how many children people can have first.

Not sure how many people would be happy with this.

I actually would.

I actually would.

Me too. But if you read the threads here, so many people support posters contemplating their 3rd/4th/5th.

General advice seems to be that, that one child wont make that much of a difference. Which totally misses the point.

That's why I think lots of people wouldnt be happy about it. On mb and another parenting website, I have seen having children described as a basic human right. A need. So that's where my thinking comes from.

What about all the fresh food we eat. You do realise unless it's grown in the UK then it's flown. Just look at how much fresh food would not be in the supermarket that we all like to eat.

For those of you who might find it helpful to have a physical picture of how much of the earth you destroy every time you fly.

Shame on you.

Children will ask you what you did to help and you will have to look them in the eye. We are facing a disaster far more serious than WW2 - people didn’t holiday then.

Get your priorities in order before it is too late.

I absolutely agree we need major changes, but at the moment 100 companies are responsible for 70% of the world’s emissions

Could you provide a
Link ? I am interested

I'm feeling a bit more smug now as an adopter (joking. A bit).
But no, I can't do all my meetings on Skype.

I’m sure the climate is changing. I’m sure humanity is to a degree responsible. Humanity is part of nature though. We should be responsible regarding the environment because it is the right thing to do, not because we fear some far fetched cataclysm, predicted by people who’s only track record thus far is of being wrong in their previous predictions.

It’s so sad to see the constant scaremongering having such a terrible effect on people.

I don’t fly much. Will I stop flying altogether? Will I fuck.

At dh firm there was a conference (jolly) in a European capital everyone in England. One senior partner refused to go as unnecessary flight. I feel guilty now when I fly and our last holiday we got ferry. So think the mood is changing

Flying is way way worse than other form of transport by a long way.

People are so aggressive when we suggest they need to change how they live for the greater good. I’m watching the DDay memorial in a TV wonder what would have happened then if people had strops over their right to certain imports, the right to fly long haul on holiday, I don’t know, the right to keep breathing in the face of the greater good.

Actually yes all meetings could be adapted to be over Skype, they might be different, slightly less effective but it’s a matter of weighing up the desire to prevent a potential small dip in revenue with the NEEDS of the planet

I think I read somewhere that ordinary consumers only produce about 7% of non-recyclable waste. When figures like that get out + we're only concentrating on the material benefits of individual 'micro-efforts', it's easy to ignore the psychological benefit of pursuing change on the habitual individual level.

I do think that once consumers truly feel responsible for monitoring their own waste and for making sacrifices they'll start to feel indignation at government complacency for not matching their efforts and that's when the real pressure starts. So I think there is social value in trying to make consumers feel guilt.

The kicker is that the smooth running of our major economies is enabled by the assumption that we don't need to avoid waste. Expecting faceless corporations to volunteer for a hit in profit or for their own demise isn't worth entertaining. They will expect seamless compensation and guarantee of their continued security, which falls on government to organise. That means the goal we're trying to achieve requires absolutely radical change to be made because cutting out the possibility of mindless waste doesn't just involve cutting out some parts of the supply chain and slotting the rest together. You either need to find this eco-friendly compensation so that our current economic structures remain, or you need to destroy those structures entirely, which won't happen. It feels like, currently, govts. will only consider implementing change if they feel it's possible to do so within the existing structures so that they neither have to destroy big business nor placate it by expending their own resources. Meek change is thus often put in place in pretty irresponsible ways i.e. by not putting in place an alternative to avoid smaller businesses from being hit by the impact, associated crime etc (also why it has to be a coordinated international effort). So Kenyan single-use plastic ban is great in theory but those who can't afford the biodegradable alternatives are fucked, while big business can suck up this relatively minimal cost plus then absorb the extra business/workforce.

I grew up with parents who, among a lot of other little efforts, reuse clingfilm and foil to be eco-friendly. It's annoying and a bit gross. Multiplied tenfold (cutting out most flights, walking to work, not washing on 60°c), this kind of sacrifice that makes itself felt and will incur resentment if it's not matched by government effort. If consumers feel they are making sacrifices and don't see this reflected in the practice of their elected representatives, they will get angry. If this applies to a large enough number of socially integrated voters, then we're talking about some sort of united national psyche, which harnesses a lot of political power.

We have three kids, two cars, DH works in the aviation industry and flies on business about once a month, and we have two foreign holidays planned this year (flying).

OP would LOVE me. I know it's not great but from Scotland the "just jump on the train" isn't practical. Public transport from here to Spain or the south of France would take forever, plus changes or station in London, possibly Paris, lugging your baggage all the way, then the same all the way back? But OP would probably say that we should just go to Saltcoats and be bloody grateful for the rain.

We are trying to improve in other areas - we've reduced the amount of single use plastic we use enormously, things get repaired and refurbished rather than replaced, we buy a lot of second hand for us and the kids.

There's nothing worse than the preachy eco-warrior. Everyone knows it's a problem but as someone said on another thread it should be about everyone making some changes, not a few people being Perfect Peter.

Well, China tried rationing the number of children that people had, didn't they? Not convinced that we should go down that route again but I do think that there needs to be better awareness of the environmental impact that having children has. I'm often shocked at people who still think it's ok to have big families.

Personally, I think some sort of environmental credits system is probably the best way forward, so that everyone is forced to make choices.

Flying is way way worse than other form of transport by a long way.

I would be interested to see some facts on this.

Is a flight for 300 to France, worse than those people all taking cars? Assuming 4 people per car would be 75 cars plus the ferry? And let's be fair, lots of cars do not carry 4 people all the time.

Not saying it's not. Just wondering.

Mentally it’s hard for humans to have things “taken away” that they enjoy. Our grandparents had 2 weeks in Devon many of us have long haul mini breaks etc and would feel a loss if that taken away. Humans always need to strive on. An optimistic part of me hopes that we are smart enough to develop alternatives so we can live our advanced lifestyles without trashing planet. We need a break on family size and flying though. More than 2 kids a couple is utterly unjustifiable

Children will ask you what you did to help and you will have to look them in the eye. We are facing a disaster far more serious than WW2 Get your priorities in order before it is too late

FRIDAKAHLOFAN what a condersending patronising post. Perfect are you??

If you drive, use any type of plastics, use any type of grid provided electicity, eat any food that was not grown or raised outside yhe field outside your back door, wear clothes you make yourself from hand woven wool from your sheep - then shame on YOU. Your children will ask what you did to help and will you be able to look them in the eye??

Get your priorities straight before its too late.

(Nope i'm not perfect either but i'm not tue one writing such posts as yours)

AIBU to ask you what else you do to limit climate change before you ask us to stop flying? Things like the meat industry for example contribute significantly to climate change too- have you gone vegan and taken up campaigning for others to do the same? Have you challenged other big businesses to act more responsibly (by which I mean globally, not just outsourcing everything to countries with fewer regulations?

If you've done all that then YANBU, If you haven't, ask again when you have

No. I take 4 or 5 flights a year. Some long haul.
Dont care what you think about that.
Agree with reducing pollution but it needs o be at strategic level, not by asking people to exchange their holiday in India ( my next trip) for Bognor Regis (which I'm sure is lovely, if you can get over the name)
Come back and ask us again after governments and international conglomerates like Monsanto have cleaned up their act.

As long as a flight to Scotland is over £100 cheaper than the train I'll be flying thanks.

More than 2 kids a couple is utterly unjustifiable

Arguably, more than one is unjustifiable. The trouble is, who gets to decide where to draw the line?

It's the same with flying. Is it ok if you only fly once every year? Once every two years? What about meat consumption? Is total veganism the only valid way forward, or would it be justifiable, for people to eat meat, say, once a month?

We all have different perspectives on what is reasonable/unreasonable. That's why a credit system would be good because it would give people a little more flexibility to offset one choice against another.

NRFT but those if you who have been to Spain on the train (I'm a poet etc) was there a delay at the border between France and Spain or do you just go straight through? Brittany ferries looks good too but I wondered about it involving a lot of waiting and faffing? It's the early check ins and endless delays I can't stand with flying!

@M3lon are you Farage or Robinson undercover? 🤨

As for funerals? Why would anyone travel half the way around the world to NOT be able to see someone? That makes so little sense to me I can't even begin to argue the case.

Are you ok?

I think aggressively berating those like the op who dare to question our impact on the planet by saying that unless they live like a caveman they cannot comment is really unhelpful. Taking that line NOTHING will ever change. There does need to be a shift. Getting angry and defensive isn’t going to help.