To ask about NI grammar schools

[PrettyTricky]

There's a strong possibility we will be moving from Scotland to Belfast in the summer due to DP's work.
I have a dc aged 13 who is about to go into S3 in Scotland. I think this would be Year 10 in the English and NI systems.
I know it's not a case of geographically zoned schools in NI and rather a case of grammar school placement being awarded depending on attainment in the transfer tests.
I'm wondering if anyone on mumsnet has any idea how easy or difficult it would be to find a place in a grammar school - there would be 3 reasonably close in the area we are looking, and a couple of non grammar schools.
This problem is adding so many worries to an already fraught time - I'm having to leave
my work and elderly parents, and dc doesn't want to go. I could seriously be doing without problems getting into a decent school. Stressed to the max.

I’m from there originally but I’m not sure how transferring works. Best thing would be to call the office and ask them.

I expect they’d need to have a place available and your dc will have to demonstrate sufficient academic ability.

However, I’m sure they also have waiting lists for those who didn’t get a place originally, so you might be at the back of the queue.

Best to talk to the schools. Majority of the Belfast schools are heavily oversubscribed and don't take everyone who applies so you'd be waiting on someone leaving which doesn't happen often. The other opportunity to get in is after GCSE as not everyone stays for 6th from and places become available based on GCSE results, but that's not very helpful for a 13 year old.

Thanks for your replies, this is what I've feared. I spoke to the 2 nearest grammar schools and have an application form to fill in, but I'm just wondering whether the chances are very slim. I don't know if this is unreasonable, but I really don't want my child to be in a non grammar school as I feel that would be a disadvantage educationally - this may not be true, but it's what I have heard anecdotally. Also don't want a school miles away from where we will live as then there will be no local friends.

DC is reasonably academic, but not outstandingly so, so I doubt would be given priority over anyone else.

I'm a bit despairing about this whole move as I can't see that it's a good thing for my teenager, and can see major drama looming.

I don't think the chances are slim. My friend moved up from wexford, her daughter is very bright, she got into one of the better ones all girls.
I am not sure with the boys.
As long as your DC have a strong academic record, depending on where your moving too, if you are moving to a MC area in NI, most of the schools in the area have a high standard, blazer uniform etc.
They are not called grammar schools anymore afaik.
Email the heads, despite what some folk say about NI the people are extremely helpful and kind.

friends DD also 13.

A lot of people travel in from outside Belfast to go to school, so friends may not necessarily be local anyway. Its been a while since I've looked at schools there, but a few of the non grammars were ok, and then you'd transfer for 6th form.

DC is reasonably academic, but not outstandingly
Any DC are usually outstanding with regular after school tutors.
but I really don't want my child to be in a non grammar school as I feel that would be a disadvantage educationally - this may not be true, but it's what I have heard anecdotally
A grammar school may feel he puts others at a disadvantage.
I would change you way of thinking on the non grammar schools.
Very Judgy.
IMO your DC would be at much bigger disadvantage in a grammar school, if he is not outstanding, plus a newbie, with an accent.
I think your applying for the wrong reasons.
There's plenty of good schools in NI.

The normal school is fine,

@EmeraldShamrock DC is in the top stream for English and Maths in current school. I doubt every child in grammar school is academically 'outstanding', given that there are so many grammar schools in NI.
Depends on your definition of outstanding, my dc has always had good reports and has never had any problems at school, however I wouldn't say was genius level nor would that be desirable.
I sincerely doubt DC would put other grammar school children at a disadvantage.

If you had the choice, wouldn't you want your child to go the best school possible? That's why just about every child in NI has a tutor going through transfer test and also why there is such a scramble for grammar school places.
My only wish is that my child isn't educationally disadvantaged by this move.

I doubt your child be at an educational disadvantage not going to a grammar school if already bright.
I think it is over 95% academically.
There are plenty of good schools in NI depending on where you are moving too.
Can you say what area you are moving too?

I have one in grammar school and one just accepted in to start in September (the same school). My eldest is just about to turn 14 and she's coming to the end of Year 10 (what I still call 3rd year).

I know some have waiting lists. I have a friend who is moving back after 4 years away and she was told that the beginning of year 10 is the best time to move - anecdotally. I wouldn't worry re not having friends close by. Most kids I know travel to post primary, some by quite long distances in MN terms.

September 2019 places were mostly allocated last Sat and if you view the EANI website you can see how few places there are available/left, obviously there is movement on up the school but tbh I know of very little. Most of my experience is in the maintained sector but I'm happy to see if I can answer any questions.

As others said best to phone up the individual schools and ask. I can only remember 2 girls transferring into my year at grammar school the whole time I was there.

If you can make the time I'd come over and visit the schools you're thinking about so you can get a real feel for them and see if they'd suit your son. I absolutely hated the grammar school I went to (all girls) and left as soon as I'd done my GCSEs. Like your son I was academic enough but definitely not outstanding, left with 10 GCSEs but never felt good enough for grammar school, it very much revolved around the brightest pupils and they only cared about grades, pastoral care was basically non existent no matter what they said. Your son would be transferring at a difficult age and I think it would probably be important to make sure there was decent pastoral care in place, especially if he doesn't want to move. The grammar schools for boys where I am in Belfast can be quite elitist and very middle class, most have a heavy rugby influence too and there seems to be a certain type of culture that goes with that. My DH struggled with this aspect of grammar school.

On the other hand my brother went to a high school and absolutely loved it. He stayed and did A-Levels and has a very good career having 'failed' the 11+. He was encouraged all the way, teachers put in so much effort outside of normal hours and he got far more opportunities than I did, his school took him to all sorts of fantastic places and he was given the chance to take part in loads of extra stuff, football coaching, cross community events etc. We still bump into his former principal and another teacher when we go on NI football trips and they always take an interest in him and what he's doing and still have words of encouragement (he's coming 30!) That would never happen with any of my former teachers.

Good luck with your search and potential move!

I live in NI and don't have any experience with this unfortunately but just wanted to let you know that Year 10 in England and Year 10 in NI are different years. Year 10 here is 3rd year of secondary school, first year is Year 8 in NI.

The thing about NI schools is that the standard is generally high across the board

• not just grammar schools.

I’d look a bit more widely. Belfast has a lot of good options, maybe take the time to suss out a few different types of schools to
see what would suit your DC.

I agree that the boys grammar schools in Belfast have a particular reputation and that may not be what you’d want for dc.

I'm originally from Northern Ireland. Lived overseas for years and returned to ni when kids were 8 and 11. My eldest didn't do the 11 plus as we were still overseas at the time so she missed out on that opportunity.

So grammar school wasn't an option for her as local grammar schools were heavily oversubscribed. She went to a local secondary and did really well at GCSE and AAB in her A levels. So grammar schools are not the be all and end all.

Youngest is currently doing her A levels at a local grammar school. It's a good school but I honestly don't think she'll do academically any better than my eldest.

I'd ring the schools for advice if I were in your shoes.

Good luck x

Thanks for all your advice, it's really helpful.

I'm not totally sold on grammar being the be all and end all, especially if it wouldn't suit him. He's heavily into football rather than rugby, rugby just isn't much of a thing in Scottish schools, well not the state schools anyway.
In Scotland we live in a lovely community currently with all his friends around him, so it will be a very big wrench for him (and me) to leave. He's so opposed to it and upset about it and I feel he may purposefully do badly if there are any entrance tests involved.

It is all so last minute too, am just stressed out like mad and worried about it all. I don't want to mess up his frienships, his education and his happiness.

Am going to call some schools today. The nearest grammars are Belfast Royal Academy and Ballyclare High School. I'm not sure about the non grammars, but will look into that too, as it sounds like that may end up being a better option for him.

I was just coming on to say the same as a PP that secondary (non Grammar) NI schools often get better results than English comps (where we live anyway). NI schools are good in general so don't consider Grammars the only game in town. Consider integrated schools in particular.

Why ballyclare if living in Belfast?do you have Boy or girl? There are other non co-educational grammars in Belfast.

Not what you are asking but I thought our experience might reassure you a bit, we moved to Aus when DS1 was 13 and everyone told us what a difficult age it was to move. He was a good rugby player in England but ended up in a school that played league rather then union so joined a local club out of school and made friends there. School was a school bus ride away so a lot of his friends weren't local, it was fine. We chose badly when we arrived and sent him to the local public school which turned out not to be able/willing to support his dyslexia despite their promises, he had a total meltdown when we decided to pull him out after six weeks and send him private (more private options in Aus). He settled happily within weeks when he realised how supportive the place was but is still friends 12 years later with a couple of other English expat kids he met at his first school.

It will be ok whatever happens. Make a mistake like we did, it can be sorted 😊

Rugby, soccer, gaa sports are in most state schools in NI. which sport usually dependis on the area religion
Grammar schools do have MC and WC DC. Ther accademic ability is what matters, I am sure lots like soccer too.
Check out the local schools many are really good ones, maybe visit with your DS, the people are lovely and very welcoming.

Living just outside Belfast - to the north. Ballyclare would've the closest school. I see there is also a non grammar there.

Would be*

Thanks guys, you're all being so helpful.

Shitting my pants about moving him, it's a difficult age and he's so happy where he is.

I know it will all be fine in the end, but I'm a terrible worrier and end up paralysed by fear, and then time goes past and then decisions have to be made yesterday. I think the fact I'm so conflicted about the move makes it difficult for me to take action, although DP is brilliant and is doing all he can, it's just me who's having a breakdown on the quiet!

My nephew’s kids both go to BRA, they bus in from about ten miles out of the city. A lot of kids who go to school in Belfast live outside the city.

If you had the choice, wouldn't you want your child to go the best school possible

Just out of interest why do you think grammar schools are better? They get better results, certainly (although it's interesting that some Hampshire non selective comprehensives do better in the league tables than some Kent grammar schools and a pp said the same is true in NI). But that's because of their intake -and an able child with supportive parents will do well anywhere. I would be looking at quality of teaching. I am assuming there are no league tables in NI?