To ask about NI grammar schools

[PrettyTricky]

There's a strong possibility we will be moving from Scotland to Belfast in the summer due to DP's work.
I have a dc aged 13 who is about to go into S3 in Scotland. I think this would be Year 10 in the English and NI systems.
I know it's not a case of geographically zoned schools in NI and rather a case of grammar school placement being awarded depending on attainment in the transfer tests.
I'm wondering if anyone on mumsnet has any idea how easy or difficult it would be to find a place in a grammar school - there would be 3 reasonably close in the area we are looking, and a couple of non grammar schools.
This problem is adding so many worries to an already fraught time - I'm having to leave
my work and elderly parents, and dc doesn't want to go. I could seriously be doing without problems getting into a decent school. Stressed to the max.

To be fair, the quality of education in N Ireland is way better than here.

There are League tables in NI, published in the Belfast Telegraph.
Going by my, albeit limited, knowledge of the NI schooling system, it seems that most parents get tutoring for their children in late primary in order to pass the transfer test which gives access to the grammar school places, which are apparently very sought over. So it seems that grammar is seen as being preferable if possible.

It's not that I'm making a sweeping statement about grammar schools being better, I simply don't know and as there are multiple measurements of 'better', not just being academic attainment.

The problem is that I have absolutely nothing else to go on apart from league tables and the general assumption by the people in NI I have spoken to, that grammar schools seem to be more desirable and academic results tend to be better.

It would be easier if was a postcode zoning and everyone just went to the local school, then there would be a range of abilities and friends nearby. I understand the quality of education seems to be of a generally very high standard because of this early streaming, but I'm not keen on pigeon holing ability at such a young age.

I attended a grammar school in NI (many many moons ago; I am as old as the hills!) My school would have been considered very academic, I think.

I think everyone who’s already at grammar schools will have sat and passed the transfer test at 11. A little unfair if your child doesn’t have to go through a similar process to gain entry, albeit later.

I have googled the issue and what you should do, but the process seems shrouded in mystery!

I suppose it's just what you're used to. I find it strange that your postcode would limit your schooling choices - I suppose living and growing up here I can see the issues that could cause. I can think off the top of my head of a handful of schools that I viewed with my kids that we couldn't afford to live anywhere near, certainly we wouldn't be the right postcode .

And my kids primary school prepared them for the 11 plus. Mine sat both sets of transfer tests and they did practise papers for both types of paper (the layout is different depending on the test - one set is multiple choice). There was also a class on every week after school if the kids wanted to attend to go over papers.

I went to grammar school in NI in the 1990s. There were several students who joined in third or fourth year whose families had just moved from England (although I'd have no idea of the admissions process). I remember one girl joining part way through fourth year and doing her GCSEs with the rest of us in fifth year and she did very well.

Students will all be , in theory, of a similar academic ability although I guess some are heavily tutored to pass the transfer test so they may struggle a bit more to keep up.

At my particular school (not in Belfast, and all girls) there was no bullying problem and no issues with students wasting time and distracting others in class - probably down to the demographic. I've worked in a couple of non-grammar schools which was very different in these respects. However the pastoral care was definitely better in the non-grammars. The teachers knew the students a lot better, including the principals who knew everybody; by contrast my principal wouldn't have known my name and I doubt many of my teachers would remember me at all or would have known anything about me during my time at school other than that I got middle of the road results in most subjects despite putting in no work whatsoever, so didn't need much attention. Whereas I think if I'd been pushed a bit more/at all, I'd have been far more motivated and got much better results and would not have left school after GCSEs. In a non-grammar (at least the ones I have experience of) I'd have been recognised as being bright and pushed a bit more rather than left to my own devices.

I think the grammar vs non grammar decision really depends on the particular child. I have a cousin who failed his transfer test due to exam day nerves, went to the local non grammar, excelled and ended up becoming a teacher. He was in the higher set in his school, was given plenty of work tailored to his abilities, and was very happy there.

Belfast is so small that everywhere would be in the local catchment unless it was incredibly small eg 2 miles.

Have spoken to the schools and there are no places available at the 2 closest grammar schools and also the closest non grammar.

I hadn't even considered him not getting into the non grammar. There are simply no spaces and allocation for next year is complete.

I now have NO idea what to do.

Its a nightmare. Currently there are 226 children about to go into Year 8 and there are no places available for any school. The Assembly needs a kick up the arse to get the school situation sorted.

Contact the Education Authority eani.org.uk they will assist

Campbell College boarding?

@rubberduckyyouretheone there are places for them but not in grammar schools...

I thought there were plenty of places, just not in the schools they'd applied to. I'm guessing a lot of these are kids who have got a B2 or lower in the transfer test and applied to grammar schools only.

"It is understood that some parents selected just one school for their child - 47 in total.

There were 21 others who listed grammar schools only.

In addition, there were some who included a non-grammar school but chose one that awards places to those who give it a first preference. Naming it anywhere other than first on the list means they will miss out."

from the Irish News

Is moving absolutely non-negotiable, OP? I would do pretty much anything to avoid moving a 13 year old. I live in NI and I love it but it would be a culture shock. Education is very different here too (very good but different).

True, I know lots of NI-ers who commute to Scotland or England for higher wages.

I moved back to NI at the age of 14 and went to a reasonably integrated and mixed in terms of social intake grammar school having not taken the transfer test. I had an interview with the head in the summer and they had a very detailed report from my previous school. It was amazing, I loved it and my friends from those 4 years are still amongst my closest (our whole year is really tight), 20 years later, despite us living all over the world now. It was the best school experience I had after attending multiple international schools before then. Can’t recommend the grammar experience enough for a child who is academically competent and maybe a little bit sporty. My brother also loved it - he took the transfer test and had a tutor for P7 (English year 6).

Many of my parents’ friends’ children went to high schools and have excellent jobs, great lives and are very happy with their schools. Some of them came to my school for A levels which was a super nice addition to our cohort.

So please don’t worry, NI is a friendly place and I’m positive your son will find his tribe. Enjoy your time there!

Hi PrettyTricky I’m in Belfast, my son is due to sit the transfer test next year. May I suggest you join the AQE and GL support group on Facebook, it’s full of helpful advice about different schools and should help even though you’re not going through the transfer process. As far as I can gather, the Education Authority will have a list of schools with places still available, have a look through and get your DD on the waiting lists for your nearest ones. It might be worth noting that some schools are two-tiered, i.e have both an all-ability and a grammar stream, so that might be an option if there are any near where you’re moving to (e.g Slemish College, Ballymena). If a child gets in at all-ability level there are opportunities then to move to grammar level for some subjects. Check the league tables for exam results if you wish also

Have you tried Ballymena Acc. Slemish was mentioned.
Most secondary and grammar schools are pretty good here .

The secondary school in Ballyclare is considered to be an excellent school too. Other grammars you could also look at would be Belfast High (a grammar despite the name) or Inst (Royal Belfast Academic Institution). Hazelwood Integrated also has a great reputation and caters for all abilities. Campbell College is another grammar to consider and is generally considered easier to get a place in, though it has £3000 a year fees and is quite middle-class. Although it’s in East Belfast, it’s just off a dual carriageway and would be v accessible from North Belfast.

Luckily the standard of education in NI is generally very high in any type of school, so your DS should go well regardless of where he is placed.

Any rough indication of the area?

There's not very many bad schools here on the whole, certainly a few with problems but nothing like some English schools based off the reports of my friends who went to England for teaching jobs.

I went to Belfast Royal Academy and people came from all over to go to it. In terms of league tables it's nowhere near the top, and the pastoral care in the school is terrible. I've experienced this myself, and also through an experience a family member has had.

They also don't only accept top grades, a family friend has just been accepted with the equivalent of a C from their entrance exam.

The schools usually run good bus services, although I know this has been cut and with no Assembly sitting there's no rush on this being sorted. But don't just look at the schools geographically closest.

Hope this helps

Oh, sorry. I see you said Ballyclare was closest. I know someone who travels from there to Jordanstown for school if that's any help as to feasible distances to travel.

There is a lot of strange advice (from non local people) on here!
Belfast High would be close to you- as a PP suggested- it’s actually a grammar school (also not in Belfast either!)
As other NI residents have suggested- contact the EANI (Education Authority, Northern Ireland) to see what places are available and in which schools. They will have the numbers and be the main people to speak to.
NI residents are a lot more transient than they used to be so you may well get a call about an available school place a few days before your child is about to start school. Also, grammar schools are not always the best- if you do get offered a place- go and have a look at the school and get a feel for it. You are also correct in thinking that a lot of grammar school promote rugby and don’t touch football until 6th form (if at all) although there are plenty of football clubs outside of school. Good luck! NI is a nice place to live!

I believe Larne Grammar has a good reputation and you might find it easier to get a place in one of the non- Belfast grammars. Ulidia in Carrickfergus is a good option for an integrated (religion and academic) option, they might be worth approaching.

I'd also advise checking out Methody- it's probably the most international school I know of and has a good range of activities and seems to create mostly nice people!

Agree look at Methody and Inst. Inst has a catchment map on its website.

Methody - mixed, massive, rugby school (Paddy Jackson went there...), in the most affluent part of Belfast

Inst - boys only, city centre, rugby school.