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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU-ably demanding of my boyfriend? (Long, cultural/communication issues)

79 replies

AIBdemanding · 31/05/2019 23:10

The context:
Together almost a year, both mid-20s. I'm from European Country A, we live (separately) in European Country B, he was born and raised in a fairly conservative Muslim-majority non-European country.

Despite not being together for ages, we've discussed our future in the context of getting married and having a family. I understand some will think this is premature, but in the context of our personal ambitions and views on dating, this makes sense.

The problem:
He doesn’t like to feel like he is being told what to do. Not unreasonable, obviously. I have taken this on board, appreciating especially that it might be a cultural issue (in his culture women are supposed to be somewhat deferential. He is not otherwise a misogynist) and adjusted my tone to try and make it very clear that I am asking for things rather than demanding them.

But he’s so hypersensitive about it that it’s gotten to the point where it sometimes doesn’t feel like I’m able to question his actions or ask for things I should be getting anyway. The best example happened yesterday.

We had agreed he would come to my place yesterday evening after breaking fast (he is Muslim, I am not - I am Christian and quite religious so generally we understand each other well, but this has been a bit of a problem during Ramadan, as he only has the energy to meet after breaking fast, so we see each other a couple of times a week, only for a couple of hours in the evening).

About an hour after the fast ends, I texted asking if he was coming. He replied “no, we’ll see each other on Saturday”. I asked why, he said there was no reason. This doesn’t make sense to me, people don’t make decisions without reasons. I pressed for an answer (was he too tired?) but he told me he loved me, everything was fine and there was no reason.

I was annoyed that he had just not shown up, and hadn’t even bothered to cancel the plans, I had had to ask. I expressed this. This culminated in him saying as usual “why do you always insist on things?”. I said I was only insisting on being treated with respect, didn’t I deserve that? He replied no(!!!). I tried to call him several times (admit this was pushy), he wouldn’t take my calls, said he was going to bed.

Early hours of the morning he texted saying he had been very rude and apologising, saying he loved me. I saw the messages in the morning and said thank you, but the apology would mean more if it wasn’t over text. No reply.

In the late afternoon I messaged saying that he had hurt me, I wanted to talk about what had happened, either in person or over the phone. Could he spare half an hour?

No. He will see me tomorrow evening. I said I was hurting and he had the opportunity to help with that now, I didn’t want to wait another day. Even a five minute phone call would do to reassure me a bit. He said “the problem is that I don’t like to talk about problems”. I said the problem wasn’t going to resolve if we didn’t discuss it, I was just going to get more hurt.

No. Stop insisting. He will see me tomorrow and we can talk then.

Am I being unreasonably demanding? Am I doing a bad job getting through to him? Am I too impatient? I freely admit that I am quite ‘tunnel vision’ and have problems forgetting an issue until there’s some closure or understanding.

We have discussed the problems with communication before, and how crucial it is for a relationship. He always agrees to compromise. The problem then reoccurs. If there’s an issue or I seem like I’m asking for something (making demands?) he will often just stop replying to me for a while or refuse to pick up the phone.

It also sometimes feels like he refuses to do things just because I asked, even if it’s “I’m sad we haven’t seen each other very much, can we chat for a few minutes? It’ll make me feel better.” I don’t feel like that’s asking much, but maybe I’m wrong?

Sorry this is so long! Nervous about the replies I’ll receive from AIBU, but I need some outside perspective.

OP posts:
Sceptre86 · 01/06/2019 07:36

Sorry but I just don't think this will work. Culturally you both sound very different and not willing to compromise and if it is like that in the earlier stage of the relationship then in my experience it will only get worse. The last few days of Ramadan are hard, fast are getting longer and after a month it wears on you. As a previous poster has said this is the part of Ramadan where prayer is especially important and spending time with family so yabu for not understanding that and he too for not explaining. It sounds like he comes from a culture where men don't explain themselves to women, think about it, honestly do you really see yourself in a relationship like this longterm?

DizzySue · 01/06/2019 07:54

You really don't sound compatible.

You sound far too fiery and demanding and he is looking for someone much more submissive. After the initial attraction and flurry of new feelings has worn off you will both find this relationship very hard going.

I don't think he respects you and his behaviour is setting you up for more to come. If you think it's hard being in a relationship with someone with different values and outlook on life wait until you are living together and having children. He will make you so unhappy.

I would move on now, before you invest anymore time here.

And in your next relationship you need to work on not hounding him with texts and phone calls when you're upset, you've done this repeatedly over more than one day. One firm text and then complete radio silence until you spoke in person would've been much more effective. You have handled this in a very demanding and needy way. Even though I agree he is in the wrong here, you have reacted really badly and lost a lot of credibility in your argument.

ContessaIsOnADietDammit · 01/06/2019 08:02

As the product of a cross-cultural marriage myself (Muslim and Christian), I can tell you that from my observation the early lessons run very, very deep. You will be expected at a deep level to be submissive, and this will be exacerbated if/when you have kids. It will be especially bad if you don't respond to motherhood in the way his mum/sisters/SILs have. I saw this happen to a lot of families while growing up; there's a reason I married a liberal westerner....

I'd walk away - regretfully, but still. It will save you heartbreak down the line.

Bigmango · 01/06/2019 08:11

My dp was a right brat when we got together whenever he thought I was telling him what to do. He did get over it though - it was immaturity and not realising that I am basically right most of the time...lollll

Also, I would be a moody nightmare if I had to fast. I went to Morocco during ramadan and fights were breaking out all over the shop because people were hangry - it’s definitely a thing.

HOWEVER....something is ringing alarm bells and I’m fairly sure it’s the misogynistic vibes. Just because that’s what his culture expects, doesn’t mean he has to play along. I’d be wary...

RussianSpamBot · 01/06/2019 08:39

I'd fuck it off now. Wouldn't wait til the end of Ramadan to see how he behaves then. Because Ramadan is a permanent fixture. Unless he were to stop observing, he's going to be like this for a month of each year. No ta.

oneforthepain · 01/06/2019 08:53

You haven't wasted your time if you take the experiences and lessons from this relationship and use them to ensure your next relationship is healthier and with somebody who respects you and treats you as you deserve.

All the relationships and connections we form in our lives , no matter how transient or long lasting, shape who we are and are woven into the story of our life. Just because something has ended doesn't mean it was a waste of time.

The real waste would be if you spent the next 60+ years tied to someone who doesn't respect you or permit you agency over your own life.

silvercuckoo · 01/06/2019 08:56

Are you absolutely sure that he actually sees a future together with you? Is he from a culture where he is expected to have a marriage arranged by his parents in mid-late-20s?
I am very sorry, but it could be that he sees you like a temporary bit of fun, before he commits to someone his parents had picked.

VoteJadot · 01/06/2019 09:10

Even if it is just Ramadan making him a mardy arse, then OP will have to put up with a mardy arse for a month every year. I wouldn't fancy that much.

JaynePoole · 01/06/2019 09:21

It's a blunt, unkind comment but it's one that kept coming to me as I was reading your descriptions - "he's just not that in to you". It's like he's irritated by some of your behaviour (like just wanting some basic respect) and he drops you for a few days.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 01/06/2019 09:25

“the problem is that I don’t like to talk about problems”.

So he has been very open that he needs a partner who doesn't want to talk about problems. And someone who uses a deferential tone with him, and who doesn't need to be treated with respect in return, either. He has openly said he doesn't respect you. Believe him. You are not compatible and you are going to have a miserable life if you stay with him. And it doesn't matter if this is "cultural" or not, this is his culture and it's ingrained in him and it's not going to change. Or if it is immaturity then you are taking a huge chance on what kind of human being he is going to be when (if) he grows up. You are using cultural deference to excuse real disrespect.

At present it sounds as if you are really the fantasy girlfriend, the one he's toying with as a fantasy of freedom while he's away from his family and home country. But as for the long term, either he will drop you to marry a conventional girl from his own background and religion or if he does marry you he will expect you to conform and be deferential and disrespected and to make up to him and his family because you are an outsider and he has done you the "favour" of marrying you anyway. He obviously cares a lot what his family think and he knows they wont approve. Even if you do try to conform their disapproval and mistrust will help him make your married life hell.

I come from a very different background from yours or his, but I remember my mother telling me about a few men in her generation who did this when they left their home towns to go to university. They'd pick a girl from a different religion and talk the talk but underneath they'd truly believe she was inferior (and they'd say so when she couldn't hear).

You and he both sound quite rigid. One reason for talking about marriage and families beforehand is to figure out whether it can really work - or not - before you commit and end the relationship before it's too late. You are planning marriage and a family and while you may have similar values on the surface, it's becoming clear that on a deeper pesonal level the two of you are not remotely suited. If you were less rigidly wedded to your own idea of how this short dating relationship should proceed, you would have dropped him.

in the context of our personal ambitions and views on dating, this makes sense.

Rethink some of your own "personal ambitions and views on dating". It was not premature to talk about what you each want from marriage and families, but it is far too soon to decide that he is the one you want to marry and have children with and especially make compromises for. You should not be changing your way of speaking to suit him! Dating means "if it's all going well we keep seeing each other, and if it's not we move on and find someone else to think about marriage and family". Your approach seems to be that once you choose to date someone then if you talk about things enough you can make all the rest work. But dating means ending the relationship when things seem to be heading in the direction of less compatibility instead of more.

Motherof3feminists · 01/06/2019 10:15

Do as I say, don't question me, I'll see you when I want to see you, your feelings don't matter.

Fuck that.

I've worked with several Muslims who happily and pleasantly worked 10-12 hour nursing/medical shifts during Ramadan so bullshit that he's too tired to see you. Harsh as it is, if he wanted to, he would. He doesn't.

Time to move on, you deserve better. Anyone who has you twisting yourself in knots trying to understand their behaviour is not worth your time.

Starfish85 · 01/06/2019 16:57

Don't walk away OP, run.

I've been where you are and no matter how 'nice' you think your DP is, the issues you've mentioned will only get bigger. In my case once I'd ended things the scales kept falling from my eyes and I realised he actually wasn't that nice after all. When I met my DH I realised just how bad things had been with the ex.

Good luck op, don't waste anymore time with someone who doesn't respect you and doesn't deserve you.

SavingSpaces2019 · 01/06/2019 19:11

90% of the time all good, our core beliefs are compatible, he respects my intelligence and my job, would never tell me what to wear, I have equal input about where we go on holiday etc. 10% of the time I can't say that I'm upset or being put out, because he'll take it as infringing on his personal autonomy
If you marry him - watch all that change....

category12 · 01/06/2019 19:20

Yep, once you're "wife" and "mother", watch those cultural views close in.

SignedUpJust4This · 01/06/2019 19:21

Doesn't matter what culture he's from. Hr doesnt respect you as an equal. If this is how he is in early dsye imagine when kids come in the picture? Move on.

Shallowhals · 01/06/2019 20:14

Oh OP no no no. Do not tie yourself to this man. You may be afraid you've "wasted time" but what's a year in the grand scheme of life? You tried it, you learned some things and you now move on and know what to avoid with the next man. You DON'T marry/have children with a man who is so very clearly telling you that you are inferior and not worthy of respect...that wouldn't just be a waste of time, that would be a sad waste of a life. I'd bet my house that his misogyny would ramp up big time if he felt he had you "trapped" with a ring or a child.

You sound nice and intelligent, so trust your instincts when they are telling you that this relationship just isn't right.

Please end this.

Freudianslip1 · 01/06/2019 20:32

You both sound like hard work OP. Walk away now and save both of you the hassle. He sounds quite indifferent but you sound very intense and needy. I could not deal with your make equivalent.

Beautiful3 · 01/06/2019 20:45

He is not nice to you. I would break up with him and find someone who respects you.

MissEliza · 01/06/2019 20:47

My dh (of 21 years so I know him well) is Muslim and from an Arab country. He has many faults (!) but I can honestly say he treats me like an equal and tbh is more like an Englishman in his attitude towards women. I couldn't have married him otherwise . The way your dp is behaving is reminiscent of how I see his friends treat their wives and girlfriends. It's about lack of respect and control. I'd walk away.

makingmammaries · 01/06/2019 21:04

When someone shows you who he is, believe him.

Get rid of this one, OP, please. If you really want a cross-cultural relationship, do your research. Betty Mahmoody’s book Not Without My Daughter describes what happens if you go into it with your eyes shut. So, for a different culture, is Susan Blumberg’s book A Good Chinese Wife.

Fwiw, I am in a cross-cultural marriage. I speak the other language perfectly and know the country well. And still the cultural assumptions, aka inborn mispgyny, get in the way. If you don’t know the language, it’s a big mistake in my view to commit to someone from a significantly different culture, because you’ll never be able to see how they, as an individual, operate in their own culture. I’ll stop here, sorry for the essay.

Downwiththatsortofthing252 · 01/06/2019 21:55

What @category12 said

This, my friend, is as good as it will ever be. This is still the courting stage, this is the honeymoon period. If you tie yourself to this man, his expectations of your deference will increase, not ease. This is him on best behaviour, just wait til he's complacent.

It's not a cultural issue between you, it's a man-who-thinks-women-should-be-deferential issue. Of course he won't tell you what to wear now, you'd tell him to f off! But in a few years when you're more tied to him, maybe married/have a house/kids he'll then feel comfortable to start listing more of your 'faults'. Run.

But also, that level of texting/calling him does sound too much, I would say work on that.

Cherrysoup · 01/06/2019 22:19

So he’s of the pick ‘n’ mix type of religion? Doesn’t go to mosque but does Ramadan? Odd.

Don’t go for the sunken costs fallacy of time spent with him, OP, it’s far more important to be happy and consider how many years of life you have left rather than worry about such a short relationship (first Ramadan with him, you said). He does sound like he’s expecting you to be good little woman at home, unquestioning and subservient. Run.

MissEliza · 02/06/2019 20:29

@makingmammaries I actually feel the lesson of that book is always listen to your gut. She knew she was taking a risk going to Tehran and she choose to ignore that feeling. I also think she was mistaken in thinking that he was 'westernised'. My dh is a nice liberal guy but I can't ignore the fact he grew up in a conservative culture. I think some women do make that mistake.

KatharinaRosalie · 02/06/2019 20:37

But he’s so hypersensitive about it that it’s gotten to the point where it sometimes doesn’t feel like I’m able to question his actions or ask for things

Ah yes, been there. Soon you will find yourself walking on eggshells, constantly wondering what you have done or not done or said or not said to upset him again.

Run. Really, do. It's just a year, cut your losses, he will not get any better. Most likely a lot worse.

Waveysnail · 02/06/2019 20:41

You deserve to be treated with respect and you shoundnt have to modify the way you speak to him because your worried about his reaction. It's time to walk away. It shouldn't be this hard in the first year