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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Landlady is selling our flat. What is reasonable?

50 replies

Summerbreezes · 31/05/2019 12:47

I live with my DH in a one bedroom flat. Our landlady said don't worry, it will probably take a while to sell as the housing market is slowing down. An estate agent has already been round to have a look. Then the other day we were suddenly given only a few hours notice that someone else would be coming round to take some photos. There's another estate agent coming next week.

I'm worried about random people turning up worth no notice. I work part-time irregular hours and I'm probably going to have to take a few weeks off work anyway due to stress at work. DH will be at work. I was reading the thread about your awful experiences of house viewings and it was full of people saying they viewed flats when people were in bed etc. I don't want to be in bed because then I'd feel unsafe with male estate agents visiting, but at the same time I don't want to constantly feel like people are coming in and out of my flat. I'm worried that someone might arrive unexpectedly when I'm in the shower. We don't have a security chain on the door. I'm sure they're supposed to give 48 hours notice, but let's face it, people break this law all the time.

Also our landlady is a bit obsessed with being neat and tidy. There is no storage space in our flat so we have various boxes of stuff down one end of the living room. A couple of years ago she asked us if we could store it at my parents' house! I know there are lots of stories on the other thread about cleaning standards in people's homes, but we have cleaned and tidied and we honestly feel our home is averagely tidy. If we're asked to move some of our stuff, can we say no?

I'm not going to be one of those tenants ago tries to block the sale or anything, but at the same time this is our home. I'm under enough stress as it is.

OP posts:

PinaColadaPlease · 31/05/2019 12:50

You are entitled to quiet enjoyment of your home. You do not have to accept viewings at any time, least of all at times inconvenient to you. You should be given at least 24 hours notice regardless of what the appointment to enter the property is for (unless an emergency such as a burst pipe, gas leak etc).

ElijahOrKlaus · 31/05/2019 12:52

Of course you can say no. You also have to be given 24 hours notice to let people into your house (of course unless it's emergency repairs etc)

PinaColadaPlease · 31/05/2019 12:53

You can live as you like, she’s nuts if she thinks it’s reasonable to ask you to store your stuff elsewhere..

What she should really do is serve you notice and then market the flat when it has vacant possession. She obviously wants to minimise the time she is without rental income, but it is your home, not hers, until the day you vacate.

lyralalala · 31/05/2019 12:54

Work out what you are happy with and then tell your landlord. For some tenants that will be "I'm happy for viewings on a Wednesday", for others "I'm happy with viewings with 48 hours notice" and for others it'll be "I'll leave at the end of the notice you issue and you can do viewings then".

Certainly tell her you insist that no-one just lets themselves in. Its your home.

Your landlord is playing with fire selling without even issuing you notice yet. It took me 9 months to remove a tenant who stopped paying (by the time you get court dates, delays, getting baliffs etc) so if she guarantees vacant possession and you are still there she'll be in a world of shit.

herculepoirot2 · 31/05/2019 12:56

Don’t worry about things that haven’t happened. You are still renting the property. They are required to give you notice and you can always say no. If they try to enter without permission, you have every right to refuse any other visits (a right you have anyway) or change the locks (providing you make the change back before you leave).

TheTitOfTheIceberg · 31/05/2019 12:58

We had a similar scenario when we moved out of one rented house to another. Slightly different in that it was our choice to move, but it was still our home during the notice period and we were - and you are - as a PP said, entitled to quiet enjoyment. I stuck rigidly to insisting on a minimum of 24 hours notice for any visits and wasn't afraid to say something wasn't convenient if it genuinely wasn't. The landlord got a bit arsey at one point as he had to rearrange the appointment for photos to be taken having made an assumption over access, and tried to threaten us that he would claim from us if he was out of pocket because the house wasn't re-let quickly enough because of us slowing down the process. I just kept sticking doggedly to the law and what was in our lease and he backed down, albeit with bad grace.

Bad landlords will try to bully you - inform yourself of what they can and can't do, stick to your guns and remember that phrase 'quiet enjoyment' (it is the actual legal term).

Original poster

Summerbreezes · 31/05/2019 13:01

We only have three months left on our tenancy agreement anyway. We've been here a few years and renewed it a few times. So she can always just not renew it. We'll just move house then. We're not the types to stay put and have someone evict us, so we won't be one of those difficult tenants. I realise she doesn't have a way of knowing that. I'm just worried about people barging in on me in the meantime. I once had a landlord who let himself in with no notice a couple of times.

OP posts:

RaptorWhiskers · 31/05/2019 13:03

I’d just say no, sorry but I’m not willing to accept viewings. She’ll have plenty of time to sell it after you leave in three months time.

midgeland · 31/05/2019 13:04

You definitely don't need to move your stuff. You actually don't need to do anything at all to help her sell, so whatever you do feel up to in the way of facilitating viewings while unwell you should see as a gesture of cooperation with the landlady which you'd not be unreasonable to expect would lead to more flexibility on her part should you need it. If she's hoping to sell to people who would live there themselves, the last thing she'll want is to give the impression that you might cause difficulties/delays by not moving out.

Are you aware that the sale of the flat doesn't automatically end your tenancy? It's worth looking on the website of the relevant Shelter branch (ie England/Scotland/NI/Wales as the law varies) to make sure you know what your rights are here.

lyralalala · 31/05/2019 13:06

We only have three months left on our tenancy agreement anyway. We've been here a few years and renewed it a few times. So she can always just not renew it.

You have a clueless landlord. Tenancies have to be ended. If she doesn't renew then you automatically go onto a periodic tenancy. She's lucky you aren't the type to stay, and also lucky that you don't need to stay - if you were applying for social housing they would insist you stay until you are evicted which would be massively held up by her not serving notice properly.

lyralalala · 31/05/2019 13:08

Also having a few boxes dotted about is something she should actually not be worried about - anyone who knows anything about tenancies will be nervous buying a house that has a tenant. If it looks like they are packing up to leave that would be a reassuring thing!

Original poster

Summerbreezes · 31/05/2019 13:08

Are you aware that the sale of the flat doesn't automatically end your tenancy?

Yes I'm aware of this, but I'd rather move anyway in case she sells it to a dodgy landlord. Tbh we could probably do with moving house anyway. There are nicer roads we could live on.

OP posts:

DoomOnTheBroom · 31/05/2019 13:08

Email the landlord setting out exactly what you're willing to allow. For example whether or not you're happy to allow viewings, what times/days would be an absolute no, and include a reminder that no one is to let themselves into the property without notice and permission.

If you have the kind of lock that allows it then leave your key in the lock so a key can't be put in from the other side.

HigaDequasLuoff · 31/05/2019 13:10

This is YOUR HOME. The landlady/landlord owns the fabric but the terms of any shorthold tenancy basically give you the right to do pretty much what you want so long as you don't make changes to the fabric of the building and return it in reasonable condition (allowing for fair wear&tear). You don't have to keep it neat and tidy and you certainly don't have to let anyone in that you don't want to. Just say no, get another place lined up to move to in 3 months time and let the marketing happen when it is no longer your concern.

Original poster

Summerbreezes · 31/05/2019 13:10

@lyralalala Sorry that was my misunderstanding, not something our landlady said.

I'm sure she'd prefer us to stay right up until it's sold. But in the words of Mumsnet, that doesn't work for me

OP posts:

AllAboutMeAlways · 31/05/2019 13:11

Has she actually given you notice? Doesn’t matter whether your fixed term is up in three months, she still needs to if she’s going to want you to move out.

Just say no to viewings. Doesn’t matter if she gives you notice because a) you’re planning on going anyway and b) she legally has to.

If the flat will be vacated in three months then she can start viewings then.

You have rights - use them.

lyralalala · 31/05/2019 13:15

Sorry that was my misunderstanding, not something our landlady said.

If she hasn't issued you notice yet then I'd put money on her believing that she can just not renew as well.

A lot of landlords don't realise that you actually have to end a tenancy (or that giving notice doesn't actually obligate the tenant to leave on that day) and it causes a world of problems forboth ll's and tenants.

Same with her selling. Just because she's decided to sell doesn't give her the right to send someone round to take photos etc. It's your home. Until a court evicts you she has no rights to be in it, or send someone in it, except for emergency repairs.

Original poster

Summerbreezes · 31/05/2019 13:15

No she hasn't given us notice. She's sent us a couple of airy messages along the lines of oh don't worry, it'll probably take ages to sell, you won't need to move out just yet etc.

OP posts:

WhereDoesThisToiletGo · 31/05/2019 13:16

You are quite within your rights to decline any and all viewings.
If you are willing to accept some, make it totally on your terms - excluded times, notice required etc.

Original poster

Summerbreezes · 31/05/2019 13:17

What is the legal requirement for notice for viewings? Is it 24 hours rather than 48?

OP posts:

pigsDOfly · 31/05/2019 13:18

As others have said you're entitled to 24 hours notice of anyone having access to your home.

You were perfectly within your rights to have refused to admit the person who came to take photos.

As pps have said, viewings must be when it's convenient for you. And forget about putting things out of sight to please the LL. It's your home and you can live how you like, obviously withing reason. If at the end of your tenancy there are reasons for your LL to be unhappy with the level of cleanliness then she needs to take it up with the deposit protection scheme she's put your deposit into.

Don't be bullied into anything you're not happy with.

EssentialHummus · 31/05/2019 13:21

You sound very sensible. I'd write to her and explain that legally and in practical terms you're not going to agree to viewings ad hoc or on short notice and (this is what I'd do, you're not required to) while you understand that selling the flat requires viewings/access etc, can she please keep them to Wednesdays and Fridays / give you 48 hr notice / whatever else, and that this will also give you a chance to leave the house to the EA/tidy up/not be cooking a roast when they come in?

And please remember that you need to give notice yourself if you are planning to move out and have not been given notice.

JagerPlease · 31/05/2019 13:23

She still has to give you notice if she doesn't plan on renewing, which is generally 2 months. And that same period applies if you go onto a periodic tenancy.

Standard notice for viewings is 24 hours, but you're entitled to say no! I've viewed properties before with tenants who have said they will only accept viewings on a Thursday, for example

HobbyIsCodeForDogging · 31/05/2019 13:23

You need to check what your contract says. When I was renting mine had a clause about allowing access.

EssentialHummus · 31/05/2019 13:23

What is the legal requirement for notice for viewings? Is it 24 hours rather than 48?

I don't believe there is one, unless it's an emergency.

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