"Average wage £29,000"

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I've had an ad on my Facebook for one of those "your baby born on this day" type posters with today's stats, which includes the average wage of £29,000. I'm aware this is the average wage according to stats, but there were loads of comments saying that was wrong, "that's more like household" etc. AIBU to ask does £29k seems that unlikely to be average in your opinion? Do bigger salaries drag it up making it look unrealistic to most?

There are teachers, nurses, surveyors, solicitors and doctors everywhere. You might not be friends with them but they do live and work in your area

Yes, and in low wage/cheap areas of the country, even inexperienced teachers and nurses are on higher than average salaries and if both partners in a couple are in these types of jobs, they will be quite comfortable, be able to buy a family house and have a decent disposable income.

It's the average because the number of people who earn 100k+ skew the statistics. No, the figure quoted is the median, which isn't skewed by the number earning over £100k. You can give a pay cut to £30k to everyone earning above the median and the median would stay the same.

So many people regard mathematics as unrelated to real life, and not important, but how can you understand these figures without knowing whether it's a median or a mean (or a mode) and what the implication are.

So what kind of full time job pays £16k? Not one where the person has to have A levels, a degree or a masters degree I guess? There are plenty of people with A levels and even with degrees who are earning £16k. The Low Pay Commission estimates that in 2017 6.9% (about 1 in 14) of all employee jobs were at National Minimum Wage. It varies by region - over 25% in W Somerset in 2018

@Allergictoironing of course there are lots of graduates not doing graduate jobs, that's not what I'm saying. What I mean is, wherever you live in the country, there will be people in your local area earning a professional salary because that's what those jobs pay. All areas have hospitals staffed by nurses, biomedical scientists, radiographers. All areas have schools with qualified teachers.

I read that the average Australian is 5' 9".

That seems a bit high, is that because I'm 5' 7"? And British?

I think that is very unlikely to be that much. Most people I know earn 16k or less. More than half of the country earns less than 18k. If it is true then there must be a fair few people on ridiculously high salaries bumping up the average.

This thread is making me despair of the nation's mathematical understanding.

1. it's a median figure not a mean. It is not affected or "dragged up" by high salaries.
2. it is representative of the whole country. It was calculated FOR the whole country by an organisation who are experts in statistics and sampling.

*I read that the average Australian is 5' 9".

That seems a bit high, is that because I'm 5' 7"? And British?*

Some people on this thread do seem to think that just because they earn less than the quoted average then so do most other people so it must be wrong.

It's an average, of course a number of people earn less, otherwise the average would be higher! Unfortunate that they are in the lower half of the figure, but some people have to be.

So what kind of full time job pays £16k? Not one where the person has to have A levels, a degree or a masters degree I guess? The relevant emphasis is has to have not has.

Yes, lots of people with higher degrees are 'underemployed' and, as 50% of the population now goes to university, it cannot remain the case that having a degree gives you a reasonable expectation of an above average salary - given that some people without degrees earn very well.

From my own job-hunting experience about five years ago, not in London, the jobs then offering £16k, so 'one step up from NMW', were things like library assistant and basic admin roles (is teaching assistant around the same level?) and did not require degrees or probably A-levels - though many people doing those jobs will have had those qualifications.

The 'entry level' positions requiring a degree e.g. at the local council (though actually asking for a couple of years' experience too, barely anything doesn't) were at £21-23k with opportunity for progression.

@mindproject read the thread. It's a median. By definition 50% of full-time workers earn less, 50% more than the stated figure.

Depends on what they mean by average.
Mean total of all wages/number of wages
Mode most common wage
Median the middle wage when they're put into order

The mean is the one most commonly used and is the one most susceptible to being skewed, a couple of exceptionally high/low results affect the outcome.

And 50% of people are of below average intelligence. Sometimes, it seems like more than that.

@JinglingHellsBells he drives a forklift.
Unfortunately when we were growing up there wasn't much help for those with learning disabilities such as dyslexia, so he came away with very little in the way of GCSEs. So he has made the best of his situation and works very hard for his money.
I actually did quite well but due to my health i can not work atm.
Dd1 is well on her way 2 uni and is hopefully going to be in a much better position than us, which we are thrilled about.
Plus we were very poor growing up and uni etc just wasn't an option for us.

I have good A-level results, a degree, lots of vocational qualifications and 30 years work experience. I still only earn 13k (16k full-time) in a skilled and specialised role that hardly anyone can do. I haven't had a pay rise the whole time I've been in my current role for 17 years, despite repeatedly asking for one. I can't go and work somewhere else without retraining because my role is specialised and nobody else is hiring.

Lots of people are in low paid work for lots of reasons, particularly women, particularly women with children.

I'd not seen the earlier reference to mean/median.

What always makes me laugh is that people will look the averages given and compare their own/friend's/family's earnings etc and then pronounce if they think it is right or not.

The average (mean, mean or mode) is what it is whether you agree with it or not!! The parameters and criteria used to calculate them will have been recorded and that is the number that is given. Whether a random person thinks it is correct or not based on 'anecdotal' evidence of the people they know is neither here nor there.

It also stands to reason that many many people will earn less (even than the median) and many will earn more. The fact that someone know lots of people who earn less does not mean the number is wrong, it just means that, that person earns less than the average in the country (however it is calculated)

Of course you can argue that comparing your salary to the average (mean/mode or whatever) might be a meaningless comparison because of where you live and the regional differences in the cost of living but to pronounce whether you agree with that average or not is bonkers.

It is perhaps more useful to use the averages (however they are calculated) as trends to see how things are changing, rather than using them as benchmarks to compare our own salary with, though that is ok to do too as long as you understand that many many people will be be earning significantly more or less than the average

I would say 29K is a fairly average salary (I have only worked in London and Manchester). As a household income I would say that's relatively low but depending where you live- in some areas a combined salary of 29K would still get you a nice house and relatively comfortable lifestyle.

I wish!

@supermommyof4

There is still time for him to gain more qualifications if he ever wants to. FE colleges now have learning support and offer courses for adults (Access courses) for mature students .

You could look into it yourself if you fancied making a career change.

I still only earn 13k (16k full-time) in a skilled and specialised role that hardly anyone can do

My mind is boggling at why you would do such a job that pays you almost below the minimum wage (is it even legal to do so even at 16K full time?) if your skills are sought after.

What type of job is it out of interest?

You ought to walk and find something else.

Minimum wage is £17k for a 40 hour week.

One issue is that working weeks have got shorter, so for many it is 35. That impacts on annual pay in some cases.

@mindproject

We can't respond to serious stats using the salaries of people we know.

If we did, and it was valid, I could come along and say I do not have any friends whose income is under 6 figures, and some of them earned £500k+.

The NMW has increased significantly (yes, it's still low, but in percentage terms above the rate of inflation) over the past few years, so people who didn't used to earn NMW have been swept up as the rate has increased and their wage hasn't so they may have sleepwalked into NMW pay for what isn't a NMW job.

I suspect that's what's happened to people like mindproject. Also, the tendency for employers to not offer pay rises unless they have to, ie because a vital employee leaves.

Very true BarbaraofSevillle, a lot of admin jobs used to pay £8-£8.50 an hour when MW was £6.50 and now they still only pay similar and the MW is £8.21

I work in one of the towns with the lowest average salaries in the country and earn around £29k. I rent (through choice) a two bedroom house with a garden and still have more spare money than most people round here.

I also used to work in London and that salary would have been considered pretty low and I'd still be living in a shared flat.

My son as a postman and now as a van driver earns/earned about £22k before tax/NI full time which I think is about 40 hours a week. So I am not surprised £29k gross is the median wage based on that.

£29,000 is £23,255 net assuming no student loan (£1937 a month).