To be worried about third hand smoke?

[lovehasadiameter]

MIL has offered to help us out with childcare for my 1 year old DD which I am extremely grateful for but I'm concerned about the risks of third hand smoke as MIL is a very heavy smoker.

At the moment, most visits take place in my home or we all go out somewhere together for the day and MIL does not smoke in front of my DD (but will go outside for a cigarette and come straight back in to play with her etc and often has to be reminded to wash her hands).

She plans to have my DD at her own home and whilst she usually smokes either at an open window or at her back door, I have been reading that this doesn't necessarily reduce the risk as the chemicals will still be present on her clothes and hair etc and can still contaminate her house?

AIBU to be concerned about the effects of third hand smoke for my DD?

This really is over the top. Contaminated, seriously?

As long as she smokes outside it's fine. Your child won't be contaminated. Speak to a doctor if you're worried as some of the answers on here are verging on hysteria.

So OP have you thought about the fact of were DD will be whilst she 'nips out' for a cigarette ? Even if she can see her through a window it takes 2 seconds to shove a finger in a plug socket or pull something on herself
So I assume going to the loo is not allowed while looking after small children?

Making smokers change their clothes after a cigarette outside is crazy

Speak to a doctor if you're worried as some of the answers on here are verging on hysteria.

I’m a midwife. We recommend that babies are not held for 30 minutes after a smoker has had a cigarette and that hands are washed, and clothes changed. This is because of the increase in SIDS amongst babies exposed to second and third hand smoke. We actively encourage women and their partners to try to become smoke free prior to their baby being born for this reason. This is without considering the increase of asthma and respiratory infections.

I’m usually the first to think that MNet threads can be OTT btw.

OP, you have two issues here. First of all, yes, if your mum has been smoking and then plays with your DD, your DD is at risk of third-hand smoke. It is definitely dangerous: www.rd.com/health/conditions/thirdhand-smoke-brain-liver-damage/
... and there are plenty of studies and news articles showing that, especially for children: www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190207150003.htm
And it’s enough to cause respiratory problems.

Second, smoking at a window or back door will actually expose your DD to second-hand smoke, not third-hand (it is NOT possible to “control” the smoke, and ensure none of it goes into the house). And while I’m sure everyone knows how this can increase the risks of cancer in everyone and breathing difficulties in children, studies now show it can also cause weight problems and learning issues for children:
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/01/160128133257.htm

It’s tough to have to be the one your parents view as causing a problem but this is an argument worth having. There is no amount of smoking and no way of smoking around (or right before seeing) your DD that is safe.

Speak to a doctor if you're worried as some of the answers on here are verging on hysteria.

I don't think stating facts about second hand smoke counts as hysteria. I think it's just smart parenting to know the risks cigarette smoke poses.

This is because of the increase in SIDS amongst babies exposed to second and third hand smoke. There is no evidence whatsoever showing any increase in SIDS in babies exposed to "third hand smoke".

This wouldn’t bother me at all

I don't think you are being OTT about the smoke, but also it sounds like she doesn't agree with your way of parenting at all (the weaning part) so would she do things the way you wanted her to? My thought is she would do whatever she wanted. More hassle than it's worth in this case.

Although if my kids smelled like smoke it would bother me because I like my kids to smell scrummy

OP, are you never going to use childcare?
What do you think nursery workers do? I can assure you they don't go in the shower after their breaks.
They go back inside with the same uniform on, maybe wash their hands and start work again.

I’m a midwife

Then you should be able to contexualise that for a one year old. Can you show any evidence of a one year old dying from sids due to third hand smoke? You're not really a midwife are you?

Seriously op, speak to a doctor and don't listen to randoms being hysterical. It's the same on the alcohol threads.

Then you should be able to contexualise that for a one year old. Can you show any evidence of a one year old dying from sids due to third hand smoke? You're not really a midwife are you?*

SIDS does occur in children over 1. I’m not really sure why you are so angry that it stands to reason that you should avoid cigarette smoke wherever reasonably practicable with a child of any age?

Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to do some research into the risks etc and have a chat with DH

I didn't say sids didn't occur in kids over a year, although it's incredibly rare. I asked to be shown the data where child dies from sids due to third hand smoke off their one day a week carers clothes.

Gagging to see it really.

I'm not angry. I'm bemused at the hysteria.

Op good plan. Do your research and make a decision.

DH is still a smoker (I quit when I fell pregnant with my twins) they are 19mo now.

He still follows the NICU advice which is (as you probably know) never smoke indoors/near the children, wash hands thoroughly afterwards, change top once back in (or have a specific jacket to use whilst outside smoking), wait at least 30 minutes before picking up or breathing near the children. Now he rarely smokes during the daytime and will pop outside for one or two once they have gone to sleep for the night. It’s not ideal, but he’s made his best efforts so far to reduce his impact on them because of his choice (he is aiming to quit but hasn’t quite gotten there yet, he’s not good at cold-turkey as he has tried this approach before and just ended up back on the ciggies after a week or two).

His Dad is a heavy smoker and even my DH can smell the tobacco/smoke smell from his clothes when he comes for a visit, at times it can be eye watering! Problem is, we can’t tell him not to smoke, but we do want him involved in our DC’s lives as he’s a lovely man and doting Grandfather, he adores them.

So we had to make a choice, allow him to interact with them as normal despite the 3rd hand smoke issue from his clothes and trust him to not smoke near them or indoors when looking after them for us, either at our house or his. OR severely limit his contact with his Grandchildren because he is a smoker (as I’m an ex smoker and DH still does we’d be a bit hypocritical to do this).

It is true that there are more health implications of walking with your DC down a high traffic high street (fumes being the main concern from cars/vans etc. than limited contact with 3rd hand smoke) - I was advised of this when my DD was on oxygen for the first few months when she got home and I was extremely totalitarian about nobody approaching her if they had recently smoked whether they had followed the above advice or not. My HV worried I was becoming obsessive (rightly so) and said I couldn’t keep DD in a bubble forever (or DS for that matter) and told me to make my best judgment for their wellbeing at the time as they will continue to interact with family as they grow older and when would my attempt to control exposure end? When they hit 3yrs, 5? 10? Etc and made it clear that I was setting myself up for a near impossible task if I continued on that road.

If you can trust your MIL to not smoke in the house whilst your DC is there, to make sure she washes her hands afterwards etc. then that is all you can ask of her realistically.

As for the house being “contaminated” this is true, there will be residue on any fabric surfaces, my FIL always opens all windows/doors for as long as he can a day or two before my DC are due to visit him, then will have any further cigarettes outside to get into practise for when they are there. But honestly OP only you can decide for your DD.

Also if your DD is older than 12 months, generally well with no breathing disorders/difficulties she should be okay with limited exposure. If your MIL already interacts with her straight after having an outside ciggy when at yours, she can manage a bit of time at your MIL’s house just fine IMO (I did extensive research on this with the aid of my DD’s GP and HV due to her previous oxygen requirements and the increased likelihood that she will suffer from Asthma during her childhood). But I will stress again - do what you feel is right for your DD and if you’re not comfortable with it, don’t let anybody strongarm you into doing it.

You're not being over protective at all.

I was a heavy and long time smoker when I fell pregnant and up until then had always smoked in the house. Anywhere and everywhere. Once I found out I was pregnant, we both quit smoking (obviously) and had the carpets, curtains, sofa etc professionally cleaned and replaced the mattress on our bed.

The chemicals hang around in all your fabric stuff OP. So, regardless of whether MIL smokes outside when DD is there, her house will still be contaminated. I wouldn't leave my DD with her.

My health visitor told me that anyone who wanted to visit DD would need to not smoke for at least 30 minutes before, have fresh clothing on and have washed their hands. Luckily, smokers in our family were happy to do this - however, it's not sustainable if it's more than just a visit for a couple of hours.

Where will your DC be when she's having a smoke outside?

I can't believe people still smoke in their houses! It must stink the smoke will be on everything.

I sound quite anti smoking but I actually smoke myself - when drinking and staying away from DD (so about once since she's been born!).

FFS people, GET A GRIP ! (I'm a non-smoker by the way. )
If you research water or apples or eggs or any bloody thing you will find scare stories online !
If everything was really that dangerous then non of us would have made it to adulthood !
Everybody is SOOO precious about their little darlings that they aren't allowed to play in the park (dogs mess), play outside (sunburn), eat meat (mad cow disease), eat eggs (listeria), drink water (poor quality tap water), paddle in the sea (sewage contamination), eat in a restaurant ( people actually smoked there at one time so it's contaminated!!!!). Jeezum Crow people, wakey wakey ! EVERYTHING we eat, drink, take as medicine, vaccinate our kids with, travel in or travel to, walk past, breathe in (even perfume and deoderant sprays are carcinogenic), have as pets, have as family etc can be considered bad for you if you look hard enough at the crap online and in the news !
It's your job as parents to filter out the crap !

I'd much rather have close family watch my child than a stranger ( remember, there's danger in strangers too !) providing they were happy to abide by my basic rules i.e don't smoke around the baby.

These days everyone jumps on the bandwagon, then throws the bathwater out with the baby ! Yet these are the same people who don't teach their kids to swim, cross roads, cycle a bike safely on roads, have descent manners etc.

Let's get back to basics as teachers of the next generation, and stop alienating loved ones and expecting schools to do all the teaching.

I'd rather focus on what's really important which is family, friends, and tolerance of others, and leave the 'online' idiots to their own devices.

@spam390 you obviously can’t make a reasoned judgement about what you read so you have chosen to believe it is all nonsense. The rest of us are capable of finding information from reliable sources and making decisions based on it. When it comes to smoking there is a wealth of reliable information out there if you can be bothered to read it. And there is no uncertainty about it. Smoking kills. Passive smoking kills. Second and third hand smoke is extremely harmful to everyone, especially children and babies.

You have lumped people who don’t tolerate cigarette smoke into a big group of people who worry unnecessarily about things that aren’t dangerous. There is a sliding scale of danger and risk. You seem to have just decided that everything is safe. I hope that approach works out for you. The rest of us will take a different approach based on science.

Your mil will not smoke in front of you when she has your dd. That doesn’t mean she be strict when you are not about.
My mum smokes, she saves magazines for me to read after her. They smell so awful I can not read them.

@spam390 I think you summed up what I was trying to say too delicately quite well. There is no way in life to “protect” our children from everything and anything that may be considered ‘harmful’. So many times I’ve seen my friends (who are also mums) worry themselves into a frenzy over what I think is a small issue I wonder how long they can keep themselves going like that. One of my oldest friends went NC with me when I refused to rehome my cats so she could visit me with her DD. I offered to have the cats outside or in another room but she decided it wasn’t good enough. Her DD doesn’t have any allergies by the way, but she believed the usual spiel about Cats being very dangerous to babies and took her worrying about it to the EXTREME. This was after my DS and DD had come home from hospital as well and they were absolutely fine - the cats generally just keep out of the way of kids, no matter what their age.

As you said, I’d much rather my DC have a lovely relationship with their Grandad (my FIL) who is a VERY heavy smoker, he makes what efforts he can to reduce the impact on my DD and DS but to not let them go to his house because he usually smokes indoors (but wouldn’t dream of doing this when they’re there) seems a little absurd to me, but that’s me and OP is OP, only we as parents, can decide for our children at the end of the day 😊

I'm afraid lots of us had family members who were not safe to be left with children. So, it certainly isn't an easy decision to always choose close family for childcare.

There are many things to be considered on childcare. Sometimes a clean smoke free environment where they get to do things is better than being cooped up with one elderly smoker all day.

user1480880826 I'm afraid you're a little off the mark there LOL, as I am educated, literate and confident grown up, and yet you seem to have an issue with me personally being unable to quantify or qualify the available literature ?
I simply am intelligent enough to , having assessed the available information (from research based and quantifiable sources only, and not 'the net') make a reasoned and informed decision based on actual facts, and not made up ones.
XX

If she only ever smokes outside and washes her hands I think you are probably worrying for nothing. If she normally does smoke in her house but just nips outside when your DC is there then that's slightly different.

My mum smokes and watches my baby, although she does use the chewing gum while she is watching DD and then I assume has a cigarette when she leaves my house. Is it ideal? No, but it's probably the best I can hope for.

Don't know if it's possible in your situation but you could suggest the smoking chewing gum or lozenges. They work well for my mother and she's been smoking 40 years, although not too well obviously as she still smokes when not looking after my DD!