Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be angry about the Oritse Williams rape case?

678 replies

prettyinpink23x · 28/05/2019 14:48

He's been found not guilty today by a Jury.

So many people on twitter are saying 'name and shame the woman, she's lied' 'she deserves a prison sentence'. This is infuriating! Do these people not realise that 'not guilty' does not equate with innocent and it doesn't mean she's lied?

Is it unreasonable for me to be angry about this?

OP posts:
dustarr73 · 28/05/2019 16:13

NOT unreasonable at all OP, it fucking boils my blood! Insufficient evidence does not mean a person is innocent of a crime, just that you cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that a crime has been committed.It doesnt mean they are guilty either.Otherwise it would be a guilty verdict.

It boils my blood when people have been found not guilty but people still spill this crap about being guilty "just couldnt prove it"

Its a court of law,the jury would have had the full facts.We just have to trust they knew more than we do.

Nesssie · 28/05/2019 16:14

Londonmummy66 perhaps neither lied? She may have been too drunk to consent, he may have been too drunk too. I think both the woman and Oritse could well be telling the truth from their own perspectives.

Original poster
prettyinpink23x · 28/05/2019 16:14

@dustarr73 Even if they have the full facts they have to have no reasonable doubt which is notoriously difficult. They can be sure he did it but have one doubt and then can't find him guilty. Its not that they were suddenly more enlightened but its about how the legal system works.

OP posts:
RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 28/05/2019 16:17

Jury mix was 8 women, 4 men.

lboogy · 28/05/2019 16:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

VladmirsPoutine · 28/05/2019 16:19

He's not guilty. Why do you want him to suffer?

Original poster
prettyinpink23x · 28/05/2019 16:20

@VladmirsPoutine Why do you want the girl to suffer by calling her a liar and naming her publicly?

OP posts:
Londonmummy66 · 28/05/2019 16:21

Nesssie - I agree - I was just pointing out that if she was proved to be lying she could (and almost certainly would) be prosecuted for that - if she isn't then how awful it would be if she was then splashed all over the tabloids whilst trying to process all she has been through and a decision which would feel unfair.

herculepoirot2 · 28/05/2019 16:22

Nobody is so stupid that they don’t know “not guilty” doesn’t declare you innocent. This is just misognists taking the opportunity to foam at the mouth.

sergeilavrov · 28/05/2019 16:22

@VladmirsPoutine - no one called for him to suffer, disagreeing with her suffering further (unnecessarily) is a mutually exclusive concept.

SomeoneYouLove · 28/05/2019 16:24

The burden of proof in rape cases should be reduced to balance of probabilities.

Redress the balance

Deathgrip · 28/05/2019 16:24

My issue with cases involving celebrities boils down to this: are women really so naive that a celebrity invites you to hang out and you really think that he has no interest in getting you into bed? Not saying you deserved to be raped( since there's always someone who'll see such as statement as endorsing rape) - but it's harder to believe when it's a he said she said case

Sure, make a ridiculous victim blaming statement and then attempt to nullify it by saying you’re not victim blaming.

What a unique strategy.

SomeoneYouLove · 28/05/2019 16:25

Not burden of proof. Standard.

SleepingSloth · 28/05/2019 16:25

If a girl is described as a 'zombie' because she is so drunk, as a man, would you think it would be okay to have sex with her?

But he didn't describe her as a zombie, someone else did. He said she wanted to spend the night with him.

No good will come from this thread. He's been found not guilty and I really don't believe there is any was of improving the justice system unfortunately.

minisoksmakehardwork · 28/05/2019 16:25

@Nesssie - that's exactly it isn't it. Perspective. Both parties potentially inebriated. Neither can be 100% certain consent was asked for or given.

But in this case, there were independent witnesses in the hotel staff, who had nothing to gain or to lose by saying what they saw, Which adds a later of credibility to the claim of rape. The woman was 'zombified'. She might not know exactly what happened but very much felt that something happened which didn't feel quite right.

Only the people who were there truly know what did or did not happen. But there was enough evidence of something untoward available to see this case get to court in the first place.

Florencenotflo · 28/05/2019 16:26

@prettyinpink23x I'm sorry that you've had to go through it.

I supported my best friend through a sexual assault trial against her step father. She was 16 when she finally told someone at school. It had been going on since she was 11. We were 18 by the time it went to Court. He was found not guilty due to lack of evidence (his word against hers). The amount of our friends that then believed she'd made it up because he'd been cleared. The wording is terrible. It took everything out of her for the best part of 5 years, the 2 years leading up to the trial and for a good 3 years after. The interviews, being cross examined in court, the questions, the implications that she brought it on herself. It took her 3 years to move on with her life after receiving that verdict.

She said she felt the court process and trial ruined her life more than the actual assault in some ways.

herculepoirot2 · 28/05/2019 16:26

SomeoneYouLove

That’s just how you formalise injustice. We have the standard of reasonable proof for a reason.

PinkieTuscadero · 28/05/2019 16:26

Sure, make a ridiculous victim blaming statement and then attempt to nullify it by saying you’re not victim blaming.

Indeed.

'Terrible if you get raped but what did you expect? Not that I'm excusing rape'

Pft.

Original poster
prettyinpink23x · 28/05/2019 16:27

@Sleepingsloth If someone else, a witness, describes her as a zombie then I think we can view her in that way especially if she had gaps in her memory. OF course he didn't describe her as a zombie if you've been accused of rape and want to deny it you're not going to say oh yes we had sex and she was out of it and a zombie because that just implicates her.

OP posts:
SleepingSloth · 28/05/2019 16:27

Way not was

Deathgrip · 28/05/2019 16:27

Deathgrip Do you not think you are a bit biased then? No ones denying that guilty people have gotten away with it, but innocent men have had their lives ruined by people making false claims. Its not common, but it has happened.

A bit biased? Because I’ve been a victim of sexual assault?

Better stop letting women discuss this then. Did MeToo completely pass you by?

PinkieTuscadero · 28/05/2019 16:28

I really don't believe there is any was of improving the justice system unfortunately.

That's just not good enough though. As a society should we just shrug our shoulders and accept a 1.7% conviction rape? No. We shouldn't.

dustarr73 · 28/05/2019 16:28

@prettyinpink23x i do know that.They still got to hear more stuff than we did.

Theres a chance he did it,but theres also a chance hes innocent.

Crinkle77 · 28/05/2019 16:28

*Yes it's shit when someone has been raped and the perpetrator gets away with it but some people are actually innocent.'

Shit seems a very mild way of putting it.*

Poor choice of words. It's abhorrent, disgusting, repugnant. I could go on Please don't make out that I am minimising the effect that rape has on its victims. I'm not. However there are people who are innocent and we must not forget that and assume that they must have been guilty but have just got away with it.

Original poster
prettyinpink23x · 28/05/2019 16:29

@Florencenotflo Thankyou for your kind words. Yes I do believe the police and court process was actually worse than the assault itself. I had to give my phone to the police, have massive violations of privacy, have the morning after pill, HIV medication etc. and was roughly cross examined and asked about my 'racial preference of men' by the defence barrister and humiliated. I was also a virgin before the incident. I still am not over the police and court process and the fact that he was found not guilty. I don't think people understand it fully unless they have been a victim or personally involved with a victim.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread