To Think This Might Break Brexit Deadlock

[donotcovertheradiator]

I am a staunch remainer and believe the Remain side came out tops on Thursday.

But as we appear to be steamrolling towards crashing out, no matter what, might this be a way forward, although it's not ideal by any means at all.

As most leavers-those who tell the truth-admit that free movement is what enraged them because before that, they just quietly grumbled-there was no real push to move-could this work?

The UK opts out of the Free Movement deals-brings in a points system for immigrants and, if that happens, stays in the UK.

I think most leavers would accept that and , although ending free movement sticks in the craw, it would at least mean that we stay in the EU>

donotcovertheradiator
I said, in my OP, most leavers

and you called the rest liars. So your primary hypothesis is immediately flawed.

off you pop then elf.

However....for the sake of completeness...remain parties out-performed Brexit Party. It's just fact.

What part of the word LEAVE do you not understand? Like many other Leave voters, immigration and free movement appeared nowhere on my list of reasons so your suggestion is frankly risible.

MrPan

However....for the sake of completeness...remain parties out-performed Brexit Party. It's just fact.

Only if you remove roughly 25% of those that voted and make the SNP, Lib dems and green parties single policy parties.

You also have to imply that all those that voted voted purely on one issue.

Doesn't matter Silver why you voted leave, the 2 main reasons given by leaver voters for their decision was Immigration and Sovereignty

This has been found by polling and uni research.

Several different surveys and opinion polls have asked Britons why they voted the way they did in the EU referendum. The two main reasons people voted Leave were ‘immigration’ and ‘sovereignty’, whereas the main reason people voted Remain was ‘the economy’

I know someone who voted Leave in the referendum (and her vote wasn't about immigration, either) but intended to vote Green in the last GE. I don't how how, or if, she voted in the Euro elections. But I don't think one can assume that all Green voters are Remainers. Some may have chosen to prioritise other issues.

jasjas1973
Doesn't matter Silver why you voted leave,

Of course it matters why people voted leave. Otherwise you wouldn't have the surveys that you mention but don't link to and as for

"The two main reasons people voted Leave were "

It should read 'The two main reasons the people surveyed voted Leave were'.

But then people love to generalise.

The majority of Leavers I know aren't that bothered about FoM - they're interested in leaving the ECJ, Single Market and the Customs Union (at which point you get control of immigration too). Not a chance that 99% of them would sign up for something that only restricted that but left us under the over-rule of the ECJ

This is also my experience.
Also your 'idea' is ridiculous, and wouldn't work for more trains than I can be bothered to explain and in some cases repeat.

It might not matter to you but it matters to me.

Thank you Boney

This has been found by polling and uni research.

I would be interested to know how many of those who voted Leave took part in the above? Hundreds? Thousands? How do you extrapolate that to 17 million? Do you have the links?

Of course I know a percentage will have voted Leave because of immigration, I'm not stupid but for many it was not a major issue or an issue at all.

While you're all arguing over whether Leave or Remain won the most votes in the recent election, it's irrelevant because when we finally get out there will be no UK MEPs.

Frankly now I've gone through an expensive process of getting another citizenship i hope the next PM just takes Britain out with no deal way before 31st October.

And then we'll see, won't we.

As an aside i had a fair few leavers in my social media friends who pre-referendum were "oh it's just to give the govt a bloody nose, i don't really want to leave, we won't win" (more than 15 people)

and now they're all - with one exception who is mortified at what they did - "brexit means brexit … blah blah - FoM… customs union…"

I don't believe they really know what to say at this point. And frankly i don't care because i unfriended most of them.

The EU has been clear that they have said all they have to say and it's the WA they agreed with May or nothing. I fear it will be nothing.

I would be interested to know how many of those who voted Leave took part in the above? Hundreds? Thousands? How do you extrapolate that to 17 million?

You don't need to ask 17m people, surveys have been done over decades and the methodologies on how to get accurate results are well known, marketing research isn't mumbo jumbo, its a multi billion pound industry because it gets results.

If the Leave campaign only managed to get only 600k to vote leave because of immigration, thats job done, leave win.

Trying to pretend that only a tiny % of leavers are racist is again, rewriting history.

Trying to pretend that only a tiny % of leavers are racist is again, rewriting history.

It is possible to be concerned about high levels of uncontrolled immigration without being racist. How often do you see posts on Mumsnet concerned about shortages of housing, of school places, of pressure on GPs and maternity services and the NHS generally? Are all those posters racist?

The population of the UK has grown from 58.8m in 2001 to 63.2m in 2011 to an estimated (by the UN) 67m today. The UK is, I think, the third most densely populated country in the EU. If you look solely at England, I think it might be the most densely populated.

I don't think anyone predicted this rate of growth back in 2001. Is it racist to ask whether this growth is sustainable? To ask what are the long term implications for planning, for public services, for housing and for quality of life in our towns and cities?

Trying to pretend that only a tiny % of leavers are racist is again, rewriting history.

from immigration to racism in easy non thinking move.

I don't think any survey has asked the whole population anything has it? They rely on a sample and then extrapolate.

I have relied on a sample and done the same. It may be smaller-it may not because some are notoriously tiny-but that's the way it's done.

If this is now considered risible, then an awful lot of market researchers and pollsters for that matter will be joining the dole line!

Silver! Just because you don't cite freedom of movement as being amongst your reasons for casting your leave vote, doesn't mean that it doesn't count for anyone. Unless, of course, you are not one person but are representing a whole area but if you are just one person, then terribly arrogant to say that just because you didn't, then it didn't happen at all.

Just because you don't cite freedom of movement as being amongst your reasons for casting your leave vote, doesn't mean that it doesn't count for anyone.

No-one has said that but you have said that those that don't are lairs.

Liars not lairs.

It's a nice thought OP but one that the EU would never agree to. Isn't the main stumbling block the Irish backstop?

Sinn Fein has come up with a solution that might suit the majority people of in NI? Based on the EU Elections and Referundum the majority wish to remain.

www.sinnfein.ie/files/2017/BrexitMiniDocs_April2017_Final.pdf

@OP

*I am a staunch remainer and believe the Remain side came out tops on Thursday.

But as we appear to be steamrolling towards crashing out, no matter what, might this be a way forward, although it's not ideal by any means at all.

As most leavers-those who tell the truth-admit that free movement is what enraged them because before that, they just quietly grumbled-there was no real push to move-could this work?

The UK opts out of the Free Movement deals-brings in a points system for immigrants and, if that happens, stays in the UK.

I think most leavers would accept that and , although ending free movement sticks in the craw, it would at least mean that we stay in the EU>*

1. remain did NOT come out on top.
2. It is not "crashing out". It is adhering with a democratic vote. Anything else is un-democratic
3. It is quite clear that we cannot reject free movement AND stay in the EU.

We left because of EU interference as much as anything. If the EU was as good as remainers think, we should have adopted the EURO. It would have saved us a fortune in exchange charges, and may well have made a difference. The fact that labour leaders did NOT push for the euro when in power, shows how little THEY really think of the EU.

Most (not all) leave voters I know not only voted out because of immigration, they didn't care about anything else, they are out and out racists as well. These are the people who took you over the line, if you don't believe it just have a look at how many followers/members racist groups like Britain First/EDL etc had, some of them had followers into the millions. These groups where all huge and very vocal supporters of Brexit.

@BoneyBack.

I haven't said they're liars or lairs. You are misinterpreting-not for the first time in your Mumsnet career. It's becoming a bit boring!

If I had wanted to say the word,'liar' I would have done so. I'm not squeamish about it but I didn't, so please don't put your slack woven words in my mouth. Thanking you kindly in anticipation

I'm sure you'll bounce back with more of your particular brand of reasoning and this is something which must be put up with on a message board of this type, so forgive me if I don't respond.

A) Remain didn't win in Thursday. The Brexit party did.

B) I voted leave because I don't like the idea of "ever closer union". I'm not anti immigration or free movement.

I think that the EU moguls France and Germany are working towards an eventual United States of Europe, and I believe the constituent countries are far too diverse for that to work.

donotcovertheradiator

As most leavers-those who tell the truth-

This is what you said, as for the rest, its just the same brand of bull that you have been pushing in your brexit threads.

Respond, don't respond, but someone will always pick you up on your slack posts/points that you seem to want to forget.

LOL!

Is it racist to ask whether this growth is sustainable? To ask what are the long term implications for planning, for public services, for housing and for quality of life in our towns and cities?

You should ask that question of farage and his Breaking Point poster that depicted "a swarm" of african and middle eastern faces....

Where i live, there have been issues with GPs hospitals schools housing etc etc for years, long before 2001, so when i go to my local GPs it is full of the elderly and our local hospital has a hi percentage of EU staff working there, my mum was given care from a Syrian stroke doctor... should he have never been allowed in because of your concerns on immigration?
Or do we just allow in the skilled (if they will want to come here) and our people can do the unskilled jobs? which is what the £30k min cap does.

The real issue is lack of investment in public services and training, Brexit shrinks the economy, less money for either.

Silver! Just because you don't cite freedom of movement as being amongst your reasons for casting your leave vote, doesn't mean that it doesn't count for anyone. Unless, of course, you are not one person but are representing a whole area but if you are just one person, then terribly arrogant to say that just because you didn't, then it didn't happen at all.

You appear to be having a comprehension problem. Nowhere in my posts have I ever intimated that no-one voting Leave did so because of immigration as that would be untrue and frankly ridiculous. There are those who wish freedom of movement to cease or at least be controlled and regrettably a percentage who are racist and against all immigration. Of course there are racist Remainers too but they are not being discussed here. What I said in my last post was:

Of course I know a percentage will have voted Leave because of immigration, I'm not stupid but for many it was not a major issue or an issue at all.

If I have said anywhere in my posts that no-one voted Leave due to immigration/freedom of movement please post the quote.