Aibu to send my son from year 4 to private school?

[Abbazed]

Ie reception to yr 3 then year 4 private school? Is to prep for 11 plus?

OP - an independent prep will not necessarily prepare your DS for a state 11 plus exam. Please do check out the format for the exam. Often grammar school entrance exams consist of VR and NVR only, whereas the prep school will be preparing your child for the format of whatever independent seniors it “feeds” in your area - ie. there is generally a maths paper, a comprehension paper and they need to know how to write an effective short story in 30 mins or so. They are also prepped in interview technique which independent schools put a lot of emphasis on (whereas grammars may not interview at all - it’s just the top scorers in computer-marked multi-choice tests).

Maybe it’s different where you live, but in London, it’s boys who move into Year 3 or Year 4 (following a competitive 7+ or 8+ Selection process). This is called moving from pre-prep into prep. The boys independent preps are for 7-13 because 13 was the age many traditionally boarded following Common Entrance.

So do check if it’s a boys prep that they even prepare for 11+ because CE is different again and you don’t move until year 9.

We have girls and boys, so they all went to a Prep that prepared them for 11 plus to London Day Schools. Read some of the 11 plus threads on the Secondary Education Board to get an idea. It’s super competitive and stressful - often the odds of a place are 14 to 1. Lots if very bright children who could easily cope in the schools will not get places, even after going through several rounds of exams and an interview for a particular school. They sit maybe 5 schools each - all with different assessment criteria. There are a few grammar schools which take out if catchment (eg Tiffin), but very few move there from the preps at 11. It’s a different exam and once you’re in the independent system, it’s hard to step off the wagon iyswim. For the grammars, it can be just as crazy with state school parents going all click and dagger and hiring specific tutors from about year 4!

I agree, you have no can have idea what sort of school will suit your son yet. There are so many variables!

I know but I've a school in mind where 90 pc attain a selective grammar place. They do focus on the 11 plus. Quite successfully. There's only 1 im interested in. Where I live is expensive so more elders less kids. The odds are much more favourable here and other safety schools are good.

I'm right!

Its absolutely fine to move to private at any point. Kids join private schools at any point, for a variety of reasons.

My daughter started at her school in Y2, they had other kids join the class later that year - one only for 2 terms as dad was posted overseas - then some left in Y3, more joined in Y4, more again in Y5, and now as we come towards the end of Y5 there's more kids joining, with yet more lined up in Y6 because if they join then they don't have to sit the entrance exam to the attached Senior school.

Private schools are used to kids coming and going. No child in my daughter's class has suffered socially or academically for joining at a time other than the standard ones (ie Reception, Y3). The only thing I'd say is that every child joining from state school has found the class far more academic than they're used to - but the school is selective and adademic, so that's no great shock.

Abbazed, I think you need to chill. Nursery kids need to play. You sound a bit unhinged, talking about the 11+ for a nursery aged child. Stop trying to live the life you wanted through your child. Let him/her develop organically. Provide books, stimulating conversation, lots of family play, etc. Don’t be that nutter who, in the effort to make her child a ‘winner’, creates an insecure, nervous wreck.

Abbazed - if this prep gets 90% of its pupils into this grammar school, well that’s a very high proportion, but I’d be asking how selective is this grammar school? Sounds as if pretty much any child can get in, or be coached to get in? What are the GCSE and A level results like at the end of all this?

Have a look at what percentage of A-A* (now known as numerical grades 7-9) they get at GCSE. Compare to other schools in the area, state and independent.

If you are in the same area as me I'd put money on knowing which prep school and grammar you are talking about. The prep get amazing results and pretty much 100% of kids get into state grammar and independent private scholarship places.

Do you know how they do it? They start entry from three years old. They classes have 25/30 pupils in. Year three and four are their main cull years where they reduce the class size down to about 10/12 children. They don't keep any child with any form of SEN no matter how bright, they don't keep any pupils where there is a doubt about their academic ability and they spend the entire year 5 doing past papers, they feel all the learning should be complete by Christmas in year 4.

They absolutely don't care about the potential and development about the individual child, all they are bothered about is their statistics. I've no idea how anyone could want that for their child.

Lunar that sounds absolutely horrendous.
It’s like a modern workhouse

Why do parents do that to their kids?

It's awful, they literally do nothing else but exam prep in year 4&5, they do other subjects from again from year 6 once all the exams are done.

I've a friend who told me constantly that I should get my children in there and that her girls were doing amazingly. Sadly her eldest dd is in the process of being managed out which is what it's taken for her to realise how bad it is.

Lunar, the prep you describe sounds like an academic hothouse. 'Off rolling' the weaker students is blatant massaging of their stats. How stressful it must be for the students and parents in their school. The stress is throughout all the years to keep up, not just in Y5.

That is a nightmare for a child. Schools like this can end up being lazy and relying on the pushy parents to do all the work to shore up poor teaching.

@lunar1 what a horrendous school - that’s the kind that gives all private schools a bad name! (having said that, a friends little girl was recently in tears every morning because of KS1 SATS - they did test papers for weeks and were told they would disappoint the teachers and headmaster if they didn’t perform well, so not only a private school problem. horrible!)

@paloma I did wonder. It's the schools stat. It's a very good grammar school. I think it's not os due to an ageing population within our county. Our county is quite rural and has some excellent schools. So a mixture of plenty of choice, plenty of good schools and geography. They don't off roll anyone they are very supportive of additional needs.

@myself2020 that's awful. Poor thing.

So a mixture of plenty of choice, plenty of good schools and geography. They don't off roll anyone they are very supportive of additional needs.

How do you know this. Schools will keep off rolling quiet. If there are plenty of good schools and it is a small rural area, how does this school manage to bag all the good students that go on to grammar?

My son goes to a competitive private school in London and they still have their fair share of SEN. I cannot see 90% of their cohort going to grammars - statistically that is not possible unless the grammar is only slightly oversubscribed, which is possible in your area if it has an aging demographic and fewer young families.

In which case, it is not the school's skill but the changing demographic? Something to think about if you are shelling out for private.

Abbazed - but when you say it’s a very good grammar school - in what way is it good? What are the GCSE results?

I find the scenario you describe quite hard to imagine as the only grammar I know if is one called Tiffin in Kingston. It is highly-selective, the odds of a place are about 1 in 15 and it achieves GCSE results of about 90% A*-A (which is only just below what some of the super-selective independents achieve). There is no prep that would walk 90% of its pupils into Tiffin. Not even the selective preps (yes there are preps that select at 3+ ) or the ones that may ask families to “explore other alternatives” at some point during the primary years.

I’ve heard the odds of places in grammars outside London are much better - eg 1 in 4 for Buckinghamshire ones (?), but even getting 90% in to those would quite a tall order for any non-selective, mixed-ability prep.

If this grammar is that easy to get into that 90% waltz in from a non-selective prep, I would suggest that you could do the prep yourself and save the money. You can buy past papers from Waterstones and just work through them at home. There’s no mystery to it.