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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think that “Irish twins” is an offensive term?

418 replies

CroissantwithCheese · 25/05/2019 12:49

I read a thread on an American pregnancy forum about the term “Irish twins”. The OP posted some gushing statement hoping she was pregnant and that it would mean she had Irish twins. A commenter said it was offensive and I deeply agree. It was an idiom apparently created in the US in the 1800s, referring to the large families of Irish immigrants. It was derogatory, stereotyping the Irish for not having any sort of family planning and not using contraception. But this was hardly their fault as the church had banned contraception. The term has now become some sort of cutesy way of referring to two children born within a year of each other, and seems to be completely accepted. How can that be accepted and not considered offensive?!

OP posts:
RiversDisguise · 25/05/2019 21:48

Twin mums would have short fuses in general, I would think.

MindyStClaire · 25/05/2019 21:54

Another brilliant Irish thread on MN. Hmm

I'm Irish, from ROI now in NI for those who need to know such distinctions, and I think it's offensive. I've heard it used by Irish people but when you think about the meaning... It's not great. Not the worst ("throwing a paddy", ugh ugh ugh) but not great. MarDhea explained why very eloquently early in the thread.

Oh and I think plenty of Irish posters have said they're offended by the phrase.

I think some Irish people are just too used to casual racism/xenophobia.

OMFG yes.

Oh, and denying people from Northern Ireland their Irish citizenship? What a completely tone-deaf, dick move.

MyBlueMoonbeam · 25/05/2019 22:15

@MindyStClaire

100%

MyBlueMoonbeam · 25/05/2019 22:17

@ILoveMaxiBondi

Exactly

bumblenbean · 25/05/2019 22:18

DH is Irish. We have 2 kids 11 months apart and have heard the term ‘Irish twins’ several times. Neither of us are offended. But that’s not to say others wouldn’t be. 🤷🏻‍♀️

MarDhea · 25/05/2019 22:25

To sum up: Irish people are not offended.

Wrong. Rtft properly. Opinions amongst Irish posters are mixed. There are plenty of posters from Ireland (the republic bit, since you want the make the distinction) who have said repeatedly that it's a shitty offensive phrase. Stop ignoring us.

Last time a thread like this came up, there was a big divide between Irish posters who had versus had not spent a few years living and working in Britain (as in the island if Britain; NI is a different kettle of fish).

Those of us who had lived for a while in Britain were more likely to object to phrases like this because we were contextualising them against a constant undercurrent of anti-Irish sentiments we had personally encountered in Britain, compared to Irish posters who had mostly lived in Ireland or whose time living abroad had been in Germany, France, Middle East, etc. where those undercurrents were not so present.

I don't know if the same dynamic is happening here again. However, after you've repeatedly experienced and observed anti-Irish abuse and denigration in Britain (in recent years... this is not about times or generations past), the scales somewhat fall from your eyes, and it is not a harmless turn of phrase when British people casually use language like Irish twins, throwing a paddy, a bit Irish, etc.

Othering feeds discrimination. Every time someone uses a phrase like that without thinking (or without caring; whichever) it helps to normalise a culture where someone else feels it's acceptable to call an Irish person a stupid fucking Paddy, or to laugh at an Irish university degree as being worthless, or to say that someone is pretty smart for a Mick.

Just don't.

AndTheEnd · 25/05/2019 22:29

MarDhea We're talking about one phrase here. Not the other ones you're making up.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 25/05/2019 22:31

Not the other ones you're making up.

Those aren’t made up phrases.

justrestinginmybankaccount · 25/05/2019 22:34

I’m Irish, I think it’s a bit rude. It’s a bit patronising.

So is “having a paddy”, used here in the UK all the time. That’s really off.

BlackToothpaste · 25/05/2019 22:39

Yy, *MarDhea.

RiversDisguise · 25/05/2019 22:39

Funny... we sometimes say have or throw a paddy in New Zealand, at least in my family, but I never connected it with Ireland at all! Maybe because Vietnam is closer? But I thought of it as just a nonsense phrase tbh

justrestinginmybankaccount · 25/05/2019 22:40

MarDhea

Just saw your post - yes - agree! Agree with your whole post. “A bit Irish” is woeful. It is offensive. Similar was said to me in a shop last week when I roughly calculated a 70% discount off a price - a fellow shopper overheard me muttering ‘quarter it and take a bit more off... the mirror is about 65 pounds at the discount” - “that’s very a very Irish Way of working it out” he said to me Hmm

“A bit Irish” is SO offensive. If anyone said that to my face I would call them on it.

Also Irish jokes, paddy Irishman. Awful.

McHorace · 25/05/2019 23:58

Irish here My mum had 5 kids born very close together but not quite in the same years Starting Jan 1960 to Feb 1961 (me). I have never heard that expression. Offensive? - maybe but I have heard worse said about the Irish.

MyBlueMoonbeam · 26/05/2019 00:40

????

MenaMum · 26/05/2019 00:49

Upon reading this thread I think I will stop using the term, but what is an alternative?

I've always loved the phrase as it is a special type of sibling relationship. Siblings who are the same age for several months and often in the same year at school etc

So I would like an alternative. Are there any?

Procrastination4 · 26/05/2019 01:09

MyBlueMoonbeam
Just because your school didn’t teach you much history doesn’t mean all Irish schools were like that. In fact I’m always amazed, as an Irish person, at how much more about the history of the United Kingdom I know than the British competitors on The Chase or Tipping Point.Grin

GoldenRule · 26/05/2019 01:37

Totally agree with this. ILoveMaxiBondi said she was in Ireland. She is. The fact that some posters assumed it must be 'their' part of ireland and that people from north of the boarder arent Irish, isnt her fault.

She’s in the U.K.

tararabumdeay · 26/05/2019 01:58

Why would anyone want to comment on the age gap between other people's children?

RiversDisguise · 26/05/2019 02:00

People comment on all sorts of inane stuff.

Hence why we are all here on Mumsnet.

SnipSnapSnip · 26/05/2019 02:36

I’m Irish, doesn’t offend me in the slightest. People use it as a figure of speech all the time here.

AmericanHousewifeFan · 26/05/2019 02:47

AndTheEnd not all Irish people are ok with the phrase.

MarDhea I think you've hit the nail on the head. I lived in UK for a few years. I was constantly listening to low level racism. Irish people who have never lived in UK wouldn't get it.

EmeraldShamrock · 26/05/2019 02:57

Those of us who had lived for a while in Britain were more likely to object to phrases like this because we were contextualising them against a constant undercurrent of anti-Irish sentiments we had personally encountered in Britain, compared to Irish posters who had mostly lived in Ireland
I think it sums it up, to hear it in Ireland is different.
To hear it with an undertone is harsh.
I've lived in NI and the UK.
I've been called Paddy with add ons, not kindly as my name is not Paddy or Patty. Grin

ILoveMaxiBondi · 26/05/2019 03:45

She’s in the U.K.

And simultaneously in Ireland. How awesome is that. Grin

RiversDisguise · 26/05/2019 04:43

Just be grateful your country is significant enough to give rise to stereotypes and odd phrases.

Think of the poor Azeris, Fijians and Swazilanders. Wink

Pinkvoid · 26/05/2019 04:51

I don’t think Irish people were the only ones having lots of children back in the 1800s or even the early-mid 1900s, let’s face it. If a woman survived childbirth, chances are she would have lots of children (not all would survive obviously).

I only heard this term myself last week, again from an American who has ten children and describes eight of them as ‘Irish twins’.