To think some adults and kids have inappropriately high self esteem?

[clairemcnam]

There always seems to be a focus on whether issues are caused by low self esteem, but some adults and kids have inappropriately high self esteem. Inappropriately high self esteem causes issues such as -

"Research from psychologist Roy Baumeister shows criminals have higher self-esteem than the general population. Baumeister and colleagues explain, “When large groups of people differ in self-esteem, the group with higher self-esteem is generally the more violent one.” "

"Researchers have found that self-esteem is positively associated with narcissism. People who rely on others' view of them become angry when their self-image is insulted or threatened. This idea is related to narcissistic injury. When people discover other people do not view them as they wish to be viewed, it can result in aggression."

And can also lead to a fear of failure.

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/after-service/201703/is-your-self-esteem-too-high-be-successful

I spent nearly a decade working with convicted violent and sexual offenders, I have experience of what this study highlights, especially with instrumentally aggressive people.

I don't think is particularly novel - it's like anything you want a good balance. I wouldn't want my child to think they were more important than everyone else, I wouldn't want them to think they were less important either.

Having raised two to adulthood, I'd take over high self esteem any day, over low self esteem or self worth.
A bit of aggression isn't always a bad thing, and to me it's more important they are robust and assured , than always thinking they aren't as good as someone else, or that they should have to back down on things

Who are these adults and children you know, and can you give examples why they are inappropriate ?

Besides, who decides at what point you go from being as confident as you should be, to too confident?

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity...

I would argue that people use the term self-esteem inappropriately. We usually talk about people who are confident, and happy and differentiated as having high self-esteem and thus regard self-esteem as an unequivocally good thing. Like any personality trait there is a spectrum. Extremely high self-esteem = bad. Extremely low self-esteem = good. Somewhere in the middle = differentiated, normal etc.

Unicorn Surely you recognise people who have massive egos and think they are more important than others?

Many times on here I see people suggesting out of order behaviour may be due to low self esteem, when it is more likely that it is due to inappropriately high self esteem.

I think you're talking about the 'Dunning–Kruger effect'. Have a Google & a read, it's spot on.

Thanks Bronze will have a read

I've always thought that people with aggressively high self esteem were covering up their true feelings of low self worth. Although not sure this would apply to narcissists as such.

I often think this when I watch X-Factor auditions.....

No some really do think they are brilliant.
My last boss had an enormous ego and was a bit of a monster as a result.

Self esteem might be the wrong word in my opinion.

To me self esteem is a feeling of self worth and it is healthy to have a high self esteem.

Some adults and children are arrogant and have an over-inflated sense of their own ability and talents. That to me is where the over-inflated egos and arrogance comes out.

Yes, but that boss or criminals are extremes.
I, like pp would take high self esteem over low self esteem, any day.
Low self esteem is so sad, so crippling. I'd rather anyone had a tiny bit too much, (a tiny bit arrogant or conceited) rather than too little.

I think it's also the belief that their views, opinions and perspective must be correct and should be agreed with that can lead to conflict.

Someone who is a tiny bit arrogant will not perform as well at work as someone who is not arrogant.
But I get the point that it is a fine balancing act.

I think that the amount of self awareness or insight is an important factor which feeds into the consequences of self esteem levels

Agree that you have to differentiate between high self-esteem and arrogance/overconfidence. The latter can be confused with the former at first blush but isn't the same and quite often arrogance is a mask which people use to compensate for fundamentally low self-esteem.

I also think women need proportionately higher self-esteem than men, particularly in working environments, to overcompensate for the inherent biases against them. I certainly would not ever do anything to dent the self esteem of a female child. God knows the world will knock enough of it out of them anyway :(

So what you're saying is criminals don't give a shit about any one else other than themselves.

It's interesting that the Baumeister quotes mention "people who rely on others' view of them". Sorry if I am being thick about this but if you are dependent on others pov of yourself (as opposed to being quietly confident and independent of thought/mind/action) surely you have low self esteem?

Fwiw, I do think there is a lot of emphasis on self- confidence, self-esteem, self-fulfillment nowadays (which are admittedly all good things ) but perhaps it's to the detriment of thinking about others?

This is tricky owing to definitions of the terms. I’d argue that a narcissist’s self-esteem is very fragile and, as dependent on the opinions of others, can never be stable. Tricky one.

Sorry Shady cross-post. Same point.

I don't think self esteem is really about being confident, I think it's about believing you are fundamentally a good person and having faith in your convictions. And believing you deserve to be treated fairly by others. I've known lots of outwardly confident people who had terrible self esteem.

I agree shady, I actually think the focus on self fulfillment/happiness makes us less happy because humans are social animals and therefore we need to work with others. Also, a lot of the time it leads people into unrealistic fantasies (i.e. dreaming of being super rich/famous or something when that's not gonna happen for most people).