To think a miscarriage is not ‘basically the same’ as an abortion?

[AnneTwackie]

I told an old friend that I’m having a hard time because of a miscarriage and she said she said that my hormones must be haywire because hers were last year after her abortion. I said it’s completely different circumstances and she said ‘yeah but basically the same thing’. Yes she’s insensitive, but is she right i.e the hormones?

It's different tho, isn't it?

One is a choice, the other isn't. That's the huge difference, and that is difficult. Hormonally maybe they are similar but there's far more to miscarriage than hormones.

I suspect you are right OP, your friend felt the termination more than she said.

I'm sorry for your loss OP

She phrased it clumsily but in terms of what your body goes through it is pretty much the same.

She told me after my first born that she thinks to have a child is to begin dying.

Is she quite poetic? I actually quite like this! There's something about it..

(and I don't like hallmark)

I've had both (two abortions, two miscarriages).

I found both to be pretty similar TBH in emotions and hormones.

The first abortion I had stomach cramps on an ongoing basis for much longer than my miscarriages.

@themiddlestair I agree i think it's beautiful

but surely choosing not to go ahead with a viable pregnancy is obviously different to losing a wanted baby?

I think you can't necessarily assume that. I did want the baby I aborted but wasn't sure that the father would financially contribute and couldn't afford to keep it on my own without relying on benefits which I didn't want to do.

It wasn't an easy decision and I wept for the entire 5 hours I was in the clinic (and I hardly ever cry).

@themiddlestair yes she’s quite wonderful and thinks about things in an interesting way.

I’ve had one termination and 2 miscarriages. Hormonally i’d say they’re the same but the hormonal/physical feelings are so caught up in emotions that they may actually seem very different.

For example, after my termination I felt a weird mixture of relief, shock, grief and vulnerability. Those feelings then led to a depressive episode because i felt I had no ‘right’ to feel anything. After my miscarriages I felt very vulnerable again and sad but never depressed.

The same hormones were affected but the experience and aftermath were very, very different.

I’m sorry for your loss OP.

@blackprism we met at art college and she did a whole series of paintings of her vagina, they were absolutely beautiful. Our teacher said Georgia O’Keefe had a lot to answer for.

I just remembered, in the days between deciding on and carrying out my abortion I felt a sense of almost bravado. That’s not like me at all so I shouldn’t be surprised I had a depressive episode afterwards.

I'd think hormonally it's the same/very similar but emotionally, no where near. One (assuming it's not for medical reasons) is done out of choice and the other is not.

Thanks missclaire i’m sorry you felt you didn’t have the right to those feelings, you did

I have had an abortion for medical reasons (I was told I would never be able to get pregnant due to my physical disabilities) Then the unexpected happened! I knew that it was absolutely impossible to carry a baby.

Mentally I didn't allow myself to form any attachment to any of it.
I recovered very fast, and just got on with life. I knew there was no other option. (This was with a previous P many years ago who was very abusive)

When the time was right and my DH and I started trying for a baby, I got pregnant and found out at my 8 week scan I had lost our baby. To my DH and I it hit us like a ton of bricks.
This was a baby we so desperately wanted. Emotionally it was an absolutely horrific time.

I may get brutally ripped apart here, but to me miscarriages are the worst.
But this is only going off my experience and my opinion.

Is it maybe the case that after an abortion some women don’t feel able to speak about the regret they feel? (I know some feel a lot of regret, and others none at all.). They made the decision, and in some ways they are relieved but there’s also regret that they don’t feel able to express?

Maybe you’ve discovered something about how your friend feels about her abortion that she didn’t feel able to say before?

I’m so sorry about your loss, OP

Hi I'm sorry to hear of your loss be kind and gentle to yourself xx
I think biologically the hormones would be the same.
I also think feelings could be similar I myself have had three miscarriages and I find them so heart breaking but I also think going through with an abortion must be so hard to do also. You read post's on here of people's regret many years later I don't think it's simply one is choice so isn't devasting. Feelings and how we cope are subjective to us. I don't think your friend was trying to be insensitive but truthful from her view point x

I left an anarchist/left/feminism group on Facebook after losing my shit for roughly the same reason.

My youngest was stillborn after my uterus ruptured and had an emcs, and nearly died.

I was told that stillbirth IS abortion, and is counted as such.

I argued that having a full-term baby, born sleeping by emcs, was NOT an abortion. The stupid, idiotic 17 year old admin told me to apologise and accept that it was.

I don't know if that's always true. Having an abortion because you HAVE to, for reasons outside of your control, but which you are devastated about and would definitely have the baby if things were different, can be just as heartbreaking and awful to deal with as a miscarriage. of course I don't know your friends situation but if it was like this then she'd also have my full sympathy

I think the friend was trying to empathise with you and tell you what you would experience. However, I can see why would you be hurt as she chose to end it, and you did not get the choice, and it is such a sensitive topic. But she did not mean to cause offence I am sure

In my opinion your friend was insensitive beyond belief!
I’ve had a miscarriage and an abortion.
After the abortion I felt nothing but relief, no hormonal issues and no immediate regrets, I had light bleeding for a couple of days and it was all over. No emotional issues either.
The miscarriage was horrific, I haemorrhaged and spent 4 days in hospital, the pain was as bad as contractions and I was profusely vomiting. A couple of days after I came home from hospital I was inconsolable, I don’t know if it was grief or hormones, I started to have suicidal thoughts, if it hasn’t been for my DS I would have acted on them. The bleeding went on for nearly 5 weeks. God awful experience. God awful experience for DS too who watched me crawl across the kitchen floor covered in blood to get to my phone and call an ambulance. I think about the miscarriage every day. I seldom think of the abortion but when I do I feel horribly guilty. Both are physically the same, a loss of a pregnancy but personally for me they were poles apart emotionally.

stayorgonow

I am sorry for your loss.

I had my son delivered at 35/40 by emcs due to pre eclampsia. I hadn't gone into labour, they delivered him to save my life. After a bad few weeks we were both ok.

During my next pregnancy I was referred for tests to a big teaching hospital. I was really shocked to see that my letter referred to a "termination of pregnancy at 35 weeks".

Recovery post abortion / surgical management miscarriage is often tougher hormonally than a natural miscarriage. Doesn’t mean they aren’t both shit. Or you should judge your friend OP.

A relative said pretty much the same thing to me and dh a couple of years back when we lost a much longed for baby at 12 weeks. And it was said in the context of grieving more than the physical - hormones etc. I have to say it REALLY floored me and upset me for a long time after.

We had gone through a horrendous miscarriage after many many years of secondary infertility and failed treatments and would have done anything in the world to hang onto that baby.

They made their choice for their own reasons (non medical) and they had every right to BUT in my mind there was absolutely NO comparison between those two situations and it was horrifically insensitive to say there was.

I am still shocked and it is about 4 years later now and being perfectly honest on an anonymous forum, it really turned me off them and I have never felt the same about them though I hide it well.

Actually there are some differences.

In a miscarriage, your body prepares for that naturally. Most miscarriages result from a genetic problem with the baby. The baby stops developing and then your body naturally expels it.

In an induced abortion, your body is preparing for a normal pregnancy - and then all of a sudden the baby is not there. VERY different effects on the body. Not to mention that depending on the method used for termination, you may have potential side effects and sometimes those can create problems with subsequent pregnancies.

It depends I guess. To some women a miscarriage may be a relief (unwanted pregnancy), to some an abortion may hold as much grief and more mixed emotions
I was heartbroken after my forced termination and ended up having nearly a year of counselling. It wasn't my decision and it was a mess

One is a choice, the other isnt.

If you are having a termination for medical reasons, or because you just can't afford another or because youre pregnant due to rape it might not feel like much of a choice. If you are pregnant by accident and the pregnancy ends in miscarriage then you may feel relief, or have mixed feelings (or be devastated of course).

I think there's enough pain to go round for everybody.