To think airline software should not allow a 3 year old to be seated away from their parent?

[Inkstainedmags]

I suppose I'm looking for reassurance as I lie here unable to sleep before a flight. DP, DS (3) and I are due to take a transatlantic flight in the morning. We were unable to select seats when we booked the flight - we suspect because the grounding of Boeing 737 Max aircrafts meant the airline didn't know what craft they would be putting us on. Then, when check-in opened, the airline's website wouldn't allow us to proceed because it couldn't cope with dual citizenship and insisted we needed proof of visas for travel to the country we live in.

When we finally managed to try to check in at an airport kiosk, we found that all three of us are seated separately and there was nowhere for two of us to be sat together. No one from the airline was available to speak to.

Surely the airline has to sort this out, right? As much as I'd love the opportunity to spend a 7-hour flight watching movies and reading books like I used to pre-DS, they can't expect a barely 3-year-old to be sat next to a stranger can they?

AIBU to think that with all the amazing things software can do these days, an airline should be able to force a parent and toddler to be sat together and cope with travellers with dual citizenship?

Plain sailing for you may not be plain sailing for others though JH. I get what you're trying to say, but seeing a 3 year old seperated from their parents for a 7 hour flight would break my heart. I think it's awful airlines allow it to happen and then expect fellow passengers to sort it out.

So you'd just "tell" the 3 year old to behave. And when they didn't? You'd what, rugby tackle them?
And of course it's fine to have a distressed 3 year old crying for the whole flight. Because that's not abusive.

I think it's awful airlines allow it to happen and then expect fellow passengers to sort it out

The thing is, they don’t. Apart from situations as per the OP where there has been an issue - the airlines make it perfectly possible for you to sit where you want and with who you want.

It’s people who choose to not pay, and THEN expect others to move who are such a pain. And in my experience always receive a fairly poor reception from everyone else on the flight!

So you'd just "tell" the 3 year old to behave. And when they didn't? You'd what, rugby tackle them?
And of course it's fine to have a distressed 3 year old crying for the whole flight. Because that's not abusive

Yes because that’s what I did on the tour

Abusive? What a lot of nonsense!

Ah but they do. In deliberately not sitting a toddler with a parent the airline has created this problem. Airlines should automatically seat children under a certain age with one travelling parent as per the course. Same goes for carers and their charges. It's not right to penalise a particular group of people due to circumstance when it's safety issues at hand. Why should a carer have to pay extra to ensure they sit next to their charge who needs their help during the travel? Why should a parent have to pay to sit next to their three year old who clearly can't sort themselves out. It's a money-grabbing exercise and it's obvious.

Most (iIm not sure enough to make a sweeping generalism) airlines are required to seat children under a certain age with parents. By not doing so they expect other passengers (potentially even seat fare paying ones) to deal with the problem for them. It's the airline creating this problem, the fault is being laid at the wrong door.

So sinkgirl you have two or more 2 year olds who don't understand words or gestures. What's your plan for ensuring they comply with airline safety rules and are not a safety risk to themselves or others during the flight?

Yes, I have twins who are two, both are autistic, one is visually impaired and also has brain damage. I’ve dealt with it so far by never taking them on a plane and having no plans to do so. But if I absolutely had to then... I have no bloody idea, how would you communicate air safety to a child who can’t understand any words or gestures? Are you saying children and adults with disabilities shouldn’t be allowed on planes?

drspouse I don't think you get it. If your 4 year old won't sit down and put her seatbelt on, it won't be the person sitting next to them who's asked to leave the plane, it will be you.

I’ve seen a 4 year old and 7 year old sat separately on an air Canada flight. Air stewards kept an eye on them.

Jacques, my children are not badly behaved. As far as two year olds go, they’re beautifully behaved. They are autistic though and couldn’t sit on alone on a flight because they’re 2.

They’d be scared, they’d be bored and generally they’d be difficult on a long flight. Because they’re 2. And autistic. It’s not that complicated to understand.

This is why airlines need to ensure that, even when they charge for seat allocations, if you’re travelling with a child (or anyone with a disability who requires assistance), that seat is allocated for free - for the benefit of all passengers. Doesn’t even sound like OP had that option though.

It’s not that complicated to understand

Well it would have been given I posted that before you mentioned your kids have autism!

Quite clearly I am not referring to children with additional needs.

However if you read these threads regularly the exact same thing happens. Posters pile on saying how badly behaved their NT children are in the hope that they blackmail people into moving!

Whether or not they have a diagnosis of ASD (which is rare at this age, most are still waiting), there will be kids of 1, 2 and 3 upwards who don’t have language / communication skills and need more support than other kids of the same age.

SinkGirl

Right, but isn’t it the parents responsibility to ensure they’re seated with their children then?

Again I would have more sympathy with parents in a predicament through no fault of their own, but the ones who simply choose not to pay? That’s their choice which they’re entitled to make.

BarbarianMum my four year old will do that if I get her to in the way that works for her.
She won't do it for you if you "tell" her and as others have said if that doesn't work "shout at her".
And it's a bit late to expel us from the plane if we're going through turbulence or if we're landing.

JacquesHammer right so it's FINE for a 3 year old to be sitting next to you crying for the whole flight. Not distressing at all for them.

There's a lot of people on this thread who are a bit hard of thinking.

right so it's FINE for a 3 year old to be sitting next to you crying for the whole flight. Not distressing at all for them

I haven’t said it wouldn’t be. But it isn’t my difficulty!

Again with the caveat of things going wrong, the parents had the chance to avoid that. If they took the chance and it backfired, I’m not going to cause myself issues to fix it!

In this case the parents have NOT had the chance to prevent or fix it.
Clearly a child's distress doesn't matter to you, though.
Far more important that you should be comfortable.

I don't think its about whether its fine or not. Or whether its desirable or not that parents and children are sat together. Its about who's responsibility it is to sort it out when things go wrong. At the moment the airlines (and some parents) seem to be under the impression that the onus is on passengers themselves. I don't think that's acceptable. And telling me how awfully your child will behave if I dont do what you want wouldn't move me from my seat if I had good reason to want to stay in it.

drspouse
Those who would not swap - would this still apply (apart from apacketofcrisps who is clearly insane) if you were then sat next to the toddler for a 7 hour flight?

Yes it would still apply. If I go on a flight I choose and pay for the seat which is best for me and my disability so no, I will not swap seats with anyone. Headphones and eyepads on, I happily ignore whoever is sat next to me.

I don't think apacketofcrisps is insane at all, I agree with all her posts.

Do everyone a favour and strap all babies and children on the wings

Alternatively, if no-one wants to swap, you and DH share the time with her sitting on your lap.

In this case the parents have NOT had the chance to prevent or fix it

Indeed, why I gave a caveat several times...

Clearly a child's distress doesn't matter to you, though

Shouldn’t it matter to the parents more?

Far more important that you should be comfortable

Given you have no idea why I choose the seats I do that’s a silly statement

And equally if your child's distress is likely to be do great and its not possible for you to be seated together then surely you would be talking to the airlines about taking a later flight. And they should be compensating you for that.

Quite clearly I am not referring to children with additional needs.

Why not? Autistic children are not normally diagnosed at 2 and even if they were, they don't come with their foreheads stamped. They just need to stay with their parent, and this is a completely reasonable expectation and something the airlines have already signed up to deliver. There is a world of difference between sitting next to a toddler who has a parent next to them and one who doesn't, for 7 hours.

OP I would turn up at the airport extremely early and I would put a change of clothes & toothbrush in your hand luggage, just in case you end up being bumped to another flight to sit together. We got moved to sit separately from our children on a transatlantic flight. Similar circs - they'd changed the aircraft at the last minute and had re-allocated us when we turned up on the day. We had a very polite conversation involving words like 'autism' and 'airline guarantees' and it did get sorted, but I think you do need to be prepared for the worst because they do have limited options by that stage. I agree with you, the age of the passengers will be in the data and the software should be easily capable of avoiding this kind of thing. It's a waste of the airline staff's time having to sort it out.

if no-one wants to swap, you and DH share the time with her sitting on your lap.

This child has paid for her seat too.

I really think you underestimate the ability of an unaccompanied child to disrupt you. A child who has wet or pooed themselves because they can't get out over you cannot be ignored through the medium of headphones. Neither can a child who is climbing on you, throwing their food on you etc. etc.

Barbarian I'd be happy to leave you to see how badly a toddler can disrupt your flight, for yourself (had I been in this situation) but I feel it is more unfair on the toddler than on you.

I would call for a member of crew to come and deal with the child - as many times as needed - I don't do childcare.

I think a few people have lost sight of the OP's original problem -- she tried several times to change their seating when online seat booking opened but the software could not handle it due to complicated passport and citizenship issues.
In premium economy it's often not all that necessary to pay to prebook your actual seats as most seats are fine, especially in a 2-2-2 formation.
And with BA, flying CC or PE I've always found that they have seated DH and i next to each other and DS behind or in front. So we can swap each other around if necessary.
So I don't think it's her fault at all and it probably won't be difficult to arrange a swap.
Also I'd suggest she posts on the airline's FB page and/or Twitter feed to bring it to the attention of the airlines management or PR dept.

Right, but isn’t it the parents responsibility to ensure they’re seated with their children then?

Clearly not if they’re given no opportunity to arrange this.

It should be the airline’s responsibility to ensure that no small children are seated away from parents, so that none of their passengers are inconvenienced. Parents should not have to pay for this since below a certain age (or with certain disabilities) it’s really essential that a child sits with a known adult. Thats basically a tax on being a parent / having a child with a disability. Similarly, adults with conditions that mean they need to sit close to a bathroom / in certain locations / with a carer should also not have to pay to reserve appropriate seating.

I wouldn’t want to sit next to someone else’s unaccompanied toddler at the best of times. I definitely wouldn’t want to sit next to my twins if I were a stranger because I have no idea how they’d react to a flight (which is why I’ve never taken them on one, the thought of them disturbing an entire plane full of people fills me with anxiety). I absolutely would not expect a stranger to either look after them or move for me (as I said, I have health issues myself and understand) but that leaves me in a quandary doesn’t it, as if we were sat apart I’m not sure what I would do!

I should be able to take them on a flight , I should be able to take them on holiday - stuff like this is why I don’t see it happening for the foreseeable future.