As reflected in pps suggestions of what COULD be done to at least enforce cm payments, it's largely because they CAN because here in the U.K. They aren't pursued, there's no consequences for them realistically. There's no social consequences either because it's not seen as shameful or unusual, the narrative by (from my experience) men under 50 is of "don't let her screw you over" "you deserve a life too" (in ref to men who barely see their kids) "she'll only spend it on herself" etc - seriously when was the last time you heard a man under 50 publicly criticise another for not paying cm or seeing their kids? Even if they privately do?
And to the pp who tried to throw the blame back onto the RP's ODFOD!
For starters it's not always the case that it's obvious that a man (it is usually men) will behave like this in the event of a split.
For another even IF there were warning signs that DOESN'T abdicate them from their responsibilities!
And given the women (it's usually women) are the ones who ARE doing the hard work of raising the kids - financially, practically and emotionally - it's pretty shitty to blame them for the actions of deadbeats!
Blackcat86 - again why is the onus purely on the women?! Plus by your standards only the wealthy could have dc.
"How do the girlfriends supporting these leeches rationalise it to themselves?" They choose to believe the bullshit - many threads from this perspective too "crazy ex" "won't let me see my kids" "spends the cm on booze and fags" "trapped him into conceiving" etc - and when it's pointed out as bullshit they either tend to vanish or get aggressively defensive. I suspect they then name change to post when he does EXACTLY the same to them, although I recall one very brave poster when I was lurking who kept her name and came on to say "you were all right why didn't I listen" and got excellent support from mners.
Or they plain don't care - why would they? Not their kids.
My ex's ow believed the bullshit, she was already pregnant when we split and felt trapped, by the time I realised he'd been lying to her (about paying cm, about contact, about the divorce progressing) and provided her with proof he was lying she was pregnant with their 2nd. There were ructions and initially he gave a shit what she thought so that made him Buck up his ideas. But as time went on he cared less what she and even his own parents/family thought too so there was no motivation for him to behave decently.
At this point he last paid any cm 4 years ago (dd was 18 in Feb) and he's never in 16 years since we split paid regularly or on time. Csa and then cms were fucking useless! At the start it wasn't until I got my then MP involved that they even shifted their arses to pursue him (he was in army at the time and only left quite recently so was easily traced as was his pay!)
He hasn't seen dd in almost 6 years, his choice. I bent over backwards initially to support dd having a relationship with him, there was a situation that meant she realised this and asked me to stop, she wanted him to make at least some effort - he made NONE!
I've been completely honest with dd, he's tried to claim at various points that I've thwarted him, at one point telling her he had "loads of paperwork" to prove this. That conversation happened with me present, dd asked what I thought, as I knew it was bullshit I said she was free to ask him to send copies of this paperwork - he hung up AND blocked her on EVERYTHING!
I know he has been telling people that he paid more cm than required, consistently and that I have alienated him from dd and prevented him seeing her. One mutual friend I'd lost touch with recently messages me on FB to have a go at me! Soon put them straight inc plenty of proof (bank payments of cm WAY under what he should have been paying, months/years of non payment, screenshots of messages from him berating me for not organising & paying for EVERYTHING to facilitate contact going back years, also messages where he's blatantly said he doesn't give a shit...) they then went oddly silent and blocked me!
We definitely need to put pressure on politicians to massively improve the current situation.
Supposedly csa and then cms had/have the power to deduct from earnings, fines, impound cars, send in bailiffs even imprison - the problem is the thresholds for such action is ridiculously high and rarely enacted.
It's a frequently occurring topic on mn (unsurprisingly) with many of the same suggestions being posited.
I totally agree that if the state paid cm initially to RP's and then recovered it from nrps they'd be a damn sight more motivated to do so!
Its already overseen by hmrc absolutely no reason the majority of nrps can't have it deducted at source just as tax is, also no reason why hmrc can't be more stringent in investigating supposedly "poor" self employed nrps for declaring unrealistically low taxable income particularly in comparison to their lifestyle.
And personally I'd make it an offence to quit work to avoid cm and nrps who temporarily quit to study etc yes the cm should accumulate in the meantime and they have to pay it back when they start working again - going back to full time education seems to be the new going self employed. I think possibly because hmrc are cracking down on the self employed loophole?
Yes no system is perfect, there will always be loopholes but they can definitely be minimised.
The number of nrps working normal waged jobs and still not paying cm is ridiculous!
The one aspect that can't be legislated for unfortunately is contact, because you can't force these deadbeat dicks to love their kids and enforcing contact with a parent who doesn't want to be there could be even more damaging for the child than no contact.
It's heartbreaking. I've an 18 yr old dd who every birthday, Father's Day, Christmas is in bits, who every time she sees her friends being supported and loved by their fathers feels that gap in her own support network, who at times has said to me "if my own dad can't love me why should I believe any man can?" And yes she has my full love and support and has at times had therapy too - none of which makes up for the fact that my ex is a selfish, lazy, stingy, thoughtless piece of crap.
Yes I regret that he's her father she deserves better, but there were no indications he'd be like this, his own immediate family have been completely thrown, shocked and disappointed at his behaviour.
Even if there had been "red flags" that doesn't excuse it EVER!
"In a bright high vis jacket that says 'deadbeat dad' on it." Loving this idea.
I'd also be in support of hmrc having a public "rogues gallery" naming and shaming non payers.
And yes when I calculate what I SHOULD have received from ex it's easily into 5 figures!
Ex and ow have had 5 more children, have a detached 4 bed house in SE, good cars and tech, regular holidays to Florida etc, their kids never go without - dd is lucky if she gets a generic birthday card!
"The issue isn’t those who work on a PAYE basis, it’s the self employed, cash in hand, agency workers that pose a problem." I'm afraid that actually an awful lot of PAYE workers are also getting away with not paying. Especially soldiers!
"What we need to do is challenge it." I did with a friend of my brothers who on a night out was mouthing off - the crap I got back was unreal! But I stuck to my guns - gave bro a bollocking for not pulling his friend up too especially as bro has been a Lp and knows how hard it is (though his circumstances slightly different as the mum has died).
Booboo82 why on earth shouldn't fathers pay cm? They're just as much the parent and responsible for the child's existence as the mother! Your post is shockingly misogynistic and defeatist!