AIBU to have the rage about men who don't financially contribute to their children?

[SighNotAnotherOne]

Or indeed women, but all the cases happening to my friends right now are men. And I know I'm not actually being unreasonable.

What is it about grown men who decide to abandon their responsibility to children they willingly conceive? And how do they so easily seem to find other women to support them?!

One friend's ex husband has just announced he's voluntarily quitting work, doing a random degree instead and being supported by his girlfriend. In his 40s. He has smugly announced he won't be paying maintenance any more and doesn't know when he'll see the kids either. No apology or explanation. That's that, end of 'discussion'. She's now left to juggle and pay for everything including a big childcare bill for 3 kids whilst working full time.

Another friend is left to pay for everything and care for her two children virtually all the time because he is apparently too sick to work or look after his children (manages other stuff just fine, including spouting a lot of nonsense on social media and its an illness lots of people overcome ad cope with). He relies on his new girlfriend too.

Another - her husband just upped and left one day claiming not to be happy. Of course there was an OW who he then moved in with ... quit his job ... sees children rarely and leaves them stressed and anxious when he does ... and of course contributes nothing to their costs. Same pattern. OW is supporting him.

Another - he's buggered off, taking all their savings with him. Left her with the kids. Waiting for OW to emerge there.

And they are just the ones closest to me. Others I know have ex partners who have never paid a penny and rarely see their children. How are they allowed to get away with it? I realise money can't be claimed if it isn't earned ... but they leave women who have no choice just to pick up the pieces and get on with it. How does their conscience let them?

None of my friends of course resent a penny or time spent on caring for their children. And being good women, they spend their time downplaying what the father has done, trying to arrange contact, working even harder to make up the money loss etc etc. They wouldn't be able to sleep at night if they didn't.

If the resident / main carer parent did this (usually the woman) and just refused to financially care for or support her children there would be outrage and social services involvement (rightly so). But apparently (some) men can just get away with it...and manage to find women to support it

Clearly no one is going to disagree with you.

YANBU. Not sure there’s much to discuss though.

You're not being unreasonable.

But you do seem to have a lot of friends who have made the 'wrong' choice to have as the father to their children.

They weren't the "wrong choice for several, or sometimes many years though @Geminijes

The problem is, these men love the family lifestyle for several/many years and then usually get their heads turned by someone/something new and more excited. For some reason this then makes them forget all about their lovely children. I can never ever understand how a man can walk away from their children like that. I just can't imagine myself ever walking away from my children and starting a new life or family elsewhere.

But you do seem to have a lot of friends who have made the 'wrong' choice to have as the father to their children.

Are you implying the OP is creating friends as an example or are you actually saying that women find themselves in this position because they "chose" the wrong person to father their children?

I can confirm all were married for at least 10 years, and did not marry in haste. Two closer to 20 years. All men in 40s and 50s.

Hmm... discussion point. AIBU to be thinking of all sorts of revenge for my friends (that we won't actually follow through?). AIBU to demand some kind of law is put in place where these men at least accrue debt? AIBU to think men like this should be more publicly despised? Still not unreasonable but my rage...

Also have a few friends with decent husbands so not just collecting a lot of raging women.

Ems137 exactly. All friends have good jobs and incomes and can support themselves. It's not really about the money. It's the principle. And I can't fathom how they can just do this and not care. How do they sleep? What attraction do they seem to have for other women?! Oh hey... look at how badly I treat my ex partner and children ... play your cards right and you could be next?

YANBU at all.

My exh does pay because there’s a court order to but he pays bare minimum and it barely covers food let alone anything else. Thankfully I earn an ok amount so it’s not the end of the world but it does piss me off to no end.

He lives with his GF and her two DC and does all sorts for her children- school runs, holidays abroad etc but leaves his own children behind, has never done a school run. I can’t fathom it personally, if I did what he does to our children I would be vilified but he somehow gets away with it because he’s the Dad rather than Mum .

There is a discussion to be had. What about doing as other countries do and variously; take away driving licences from non-payers, lock up non-payers, assume an income so they can't just leave their job? What about putting it on their credit reports? What about actually shaming these men (and some women, but mostly men)? Cracking down properly on cash-in-hand work? Investigating men whose lives don't match their incomes? Looking at self-employment as a ruse to escape paying?

We could do all of these things if we wanted...

I can't understand it either, as a father. I couldn't stand not seeing my children, or ensuring that they had food in their belly and clothes on their back.

As it is I do not contribute financially to my DC when they are with their Mum, but we split custody 50/50, completely down the line so wouldn't ever expect her to ever give me money for DC either.

Your examples all seem to be abandoning time with the children as well as abandoning them financially. I find it baffling rather than rage inducing, you'd need major barriers to keep my DH away from DS. The financial side is pure selfishness, assuming the mother will pay. Not seeing the children though, that indicates a lack of love so it seems sociopathic to me. I don't see what help your "rage" brings, contempt for the men is probably sufficient.

I think instead of the CMS, the government should pay the RP then get the money back from NRP. If the NRP does a degree or whatever then the government should pay the RP then pursue the NRP after they graduate. It baffles me how they can pursue people for not paying VAT or Council
tax but are totally useless when it comes to chasing up CM debt when it (usually) goes on vital stuff like food. It angers me how many RP are owed 5 figure sums. The government could use the same enforcement system as HMRC does because the CMS isn't fit for purpose.

Are you implying the OP is creating friends as an example or are you actually saying that women find themselves in this position because they "chose" the wrong person to father their children?

The later. Although I can appreciate, as a previous person pointed out, that things/circumstances change and the man didn't appear to be the type who would forget about their children when the marriage/relationship broke down.

I do like the idea of a non-paying parent accruing debt owed to the caring parent, a minimum amount due to the mother per year for raising each child that stays payable despite bankruptcy until the non-paying parent's death or payment.

I agree with you op. I'd do what a pp suggested and take away their driving licences, passports, prevent them marrying again if they owed child support and eventually prison. That would cost a fortune but I think it would be a massive deterrent.

I cannot understand the women that support them in this either! I'd run a mile from a bloke who had kids he didn't see or pay for.

mrsterrypratchett YES! All of those. Any of those. Money charged as an automatic and then in the cases of genuine issues, alongside genuine will and involvement with their children an agreement could be arranged.

Adsy - you can go on my decent father list. It's quite short at the moment. And absolutely, if care is genuinely shared (and large one off costs split like school trips) then no issue at all.

MRex - there is plenty of contempt too. But having this most recent example just yesterday, my rage is high. And I want to do something (useful to help the situation, not illegal)

Completely agree. H announced he had had enough. I'm just meant to pick up the pieces. Makes me so cross. (Actually he's not bothered even opening his own bank account so for now I'm buying lots of new things with his salary!)

Sadly a lot of women leave themselves financially vulnerable believing that a man will save them. Of course this doesn't happen. Women need better financial education because whatever system you try to impose these men will always to get out of it. There is always a loophole somewhere. I wouldn't conceive until I was in a stronger financial position. I have a stable home, car and career. If it all went tits up I could support my child by myself and DH would walk away with very little.

What attraction do they seem to have for other women?!

This is the bit I have most trouble understanding. How do the girlfriends supporting these leeches rationalise it to themselves?

I'm always gobsmacked by this too. DH and I are pretty unlikely to get divorced, but I have no doubt that if we did, we would both be aiming to have as much time as possible with the DC. Ditto financial contributions.

But my dad didn't even meet his father until he was in his 30s. And then only once. DS' best friend's father doesn't pay a penny and has recently improved his time with him and his brother to one night every two weeks. Before that they could go 6 weeks without seeing him. (and no, one night out of 14 still seems pretty shit to me). Another man I know hid his income so that he only had to pay £45/month to his ex for their baby. He only had the child once every two weeks for two nights too. It's horribly prevalent.

Selfish bastards I wish there was something that could be done about it, not sure what exactly.

My ex doesn't pay for my children and very rarely sees them only when it suits him (ie every couple of months when he has nothing better to do). He works cash in hand while claiming benefits, on the CMS calculator I am entitled to approx £28 a month. I am on income suport on the bones of my arse, it drives my mum and step dad mad that he doesn't contribute but tbh I am past caring. He's not worth getting angry over I've wasted too much energy being angry at him. When I'm working and in a better financial situation I know I will be able to look back and feel proud that I done it all myself.

How do the girlfriends supporting these leeches rationalise it to themselves?

I had an extraordinarily awkward coffee with an ex colleague a few years ago. she herself was a single mum, and she'd just started dating another man. she'd known him for ages and he'd been telling her for years about his terrible marriage but how he couldn't leave as he couldn't afford to pay the mortgage and costs for his DC AND live separately. Then they got together and he promptly moved out of the family home into hers...

It was so obvious to me that he was a complete bounder. But she wouldn't see it.

Although, I subsequently realised via a little facebook stalking that she clearly had dumped him (or he'd gone back to the DW?) so at least it didn't go on for years.

blackcat - all friends very relieved that they do have enough money. In fact in most cases they earn more than their ex husband despite having had time off. Husbands typically leached from them as they got more successful and then left / things ended.

I think a lot of it is revenge or bitterness that they have to support the children when they think their ex wife with more money should do it all.

Of course... in many other circumstances it's the high earning men who have buggered off leaving the mother of their children scraping by.

And yes if we can demand money and assign community service for other things, why can't we do it for men who are not involved? Not necessarily forcing them on their children but making them pick litter or something instead. In a bright high vis jacket that says 'deadbeat dad' on it.

I think sadly some new girlfriends are behind this, seeing the ex wife as getting 'his' money. Interestingly, all friends in this situation ex husbands have found girlfriends without children. Of course not saying that if you dont have children you can't empathise but wonder what happens if they do start wanting children ...

I 100 % agree with you and especially the pp who said hmrc should pay some form of minimum and then claim it back from the non payer with none if this writing off the debt after x years.
To the pp who said women shouldn't let themselves be financially vulnerable, I agree to an extent but to be fair, even a pretty decent salary for a full time job would not be enough to cover childcare and all other expenses if the NRP isn't contributing. Also, it would be rather a pity if no parent felt they could 'risk' being a sahp in case they later needed to be self reliant. The system should be MUCH more robust.

However I bet someone will be along in a bit to say a) it's not just men and b) give a tale of woe about their dps ex who is bitter and greedy asking for decent maintenance which prevents the second family from growing or having luxuries 🤔

angrybird yes even if you can afford to support a child by yourself, you just shouldn't have to. It's not about leaving yourself vulnerable, it's about two people creating a baby. We're in a ridiculous state of affairs if all women should earn enough to support their children by themselves just in case men decide they can't be bothered!