To give my children ham sandwiches every week?

[Popskipiekin]

My dad, who has had bowel cancer, is very up on what food is bad for you. He sent me this link which says - broadly - that ham, bacon and other processed meats are as bad as cigarettes and asbestos health-wise...

www.heraldscotland.com/news/17649774.herald-on-sunday-campaign-time-to-dump-nitro-meat-from-schools-and-hospitals/

DC have ham in some form every week. Sometimes twice. Is this very terrible? I thought ham wasn’t quite in the same category as bacon (which I do know we should be avoiding).

Quorn do good ham replacements. We are veggie but was once meat eaters. I dont think your kids would notice the change unless they currently eat the really good butchers ham. But to answer your question in old cut it out but then I know that's easy for me to say as I am veggie as are my children and husband. We are veggie for health/environmental and animal welfare so if we are ever tempted it's easy to talk our selves out of it. Good luck what ever you choose x

My DD has eaten bacon or gammon almost every day since I was a child. He is 87 with Alzheimer’s, knackered knees, heart failure and a weak bladder. Doubt any of his ailments are related to his bacon eating.

He’s never smoked. I wonder whether he would still be going at 87 if he’d smoked all his life. I don’t thin’ the two are comparable.

As far as I am concerned everything in moderation. Home cooked food, plenty of exercise and naughty but nice things occasionally.

It’s all very well preaching about Only feeding your children plant based, organic mung beans, but the reality is many of them will go off to university and live off alcohol and pizza for three years.

My dads best friend had dementia. He used to work in the meat factory/slaughter house and had red meat every day. Before he got too bad he said he thought it was down to all the red meat.

Ready made mince often isn't 100% beef though. Read the labels next time you're in the supermarket.

Where the hell are you shopping? I’ve seen burgers with added bread/onion etc but I’ve never seen beef mince that’s not 100% meat. 😳

OP my dd19 will still only eat ham/bacon/cooked chicken in a sandwich. Because she struggles to keep her weight up I buy nitrate/nitrite free both from Ocado/Waitrose/Sainsburys. It’s called Naked by Finnebrogue or Nitrite free by Houghton.

It’s very hard to reach recommended iron levels on any diet, but particularly hard to reach daily RDA on a veggie diet. No, leafy greens pulses and grains don’t even come close to a piece of beef or liver

That said, I very much doubt most people hit their RDA iron everyday no matter what they eat, and we seem to be able to function perfectly ok on sub optimum levels in most cases, and it is of course, easy to supplement.

dietition said its mostly bullshit.yes there is a raised risk.BUT NO WAY in the same way as smoking. and you will find the studies arent as helpful as they seem.these studdies are often fundied and sponsered by groups who want a certain outcome to sell products or idea.
its all about balance.becasue many of the studies dont then go on to look at the whole diet or more likely dont mention this in their findings because it wont fit the asnwer they want...for instance people who have lots of these types of meat often have a 'bad' diet overall too.lots of fats and ready type meals,fried meals etc.often smoke too.
so all these bad diet factors together of course wont lead to the greatest outcome.
but all in all no its not bad.its about balance and what other thing s you have in your deit and exercise the counteracts the little niggles you allow.

Where the hell are you shopping?

I live in Spain. Maybe things are different here, the ready made mince in packs often isn't 100%. I thought everywhere was the same.

Actually with regards to the comment about near being bad for the environment, that's seemingly not so true.

Chickens are the worst for the environment and the rise in veggie and veganism is also harming the environment. There was a guy on chris Evans show last week saying the amount of land given over to legumes etc now is staggering and reducing grass. Grass feeds the planet oxygen. Vegan crops and lack of grass is not good for the planet.

Buy local grass fed beef n lamb and save chicken as occasional treat, just like we used to in the 50s. That's good for the planet.

i think people who come on here pushing the envromental and bad for you vibes have their own agenda and beliefs. and so will just tell you its BAAAAAAD dont touch it etc.when people who know just keep coming back to trying to tell pepole its about eating in balance.and moderation is key.

We tried the new nitrate free ham from Waitrose and it was fine but expensive. Quorn fam and fickin is cheaper and the kids like it with cream cheese, rolled up as a snack or with bread for lunch. I see no reason to buy ham when nitrates plus red meats have been shown to be carcinogenic. Plus it is salty. But also we don't eat burnt toast, even if the risk is small, it isn't worth it.

I live in Spain. Maybe things are different here, the ready made mince in packs often isn't 100%. I thought everywhere was the same.

Oh, sorry - my bad. No, here in the UK minced beef is just beef!

Readymade burgers and meatballs almost always have nitrates added too so we very rarely have them.

Love ham, bacon and sausages but the evidence is overwhelming now so with regret we’ve cut them out. Exception is buying bacon from a breeder who cures bacon without nitrates or nitrites (which I gather are the issue). Very expensive though so it’s once a week.

I don’t eat meat but DS eats most things. I have cut back his red and processed meat intake, as I don’t think he needs to eat it anyway.

Some of the processed meats are ridiculously cheap it makes you wonder what is in it. This was one of the reasons I went veggie when I was a child - I read up on the meat industry and the processing can be quite grim.

Yes your dad is right, esp if they have it everyday.
That’s one of the many reasons my own dcs haven’t had a sandwich at lunch time for years.
It doesn’t mean they dint have any ham or any bacon. Just that it’s a once in a while thing.

Have a look at what you eat in the week. When we change things, we were eating some sort of processed food like that everyday. One day it’s Han, then bacon in a dish in the vending or chorizo etc.. it all adds up very quickly.

Once a week will be fine.

I've known about this link for some time, and have been limiting both my own and DD's intake to once a week only. Bacon and ham are delicious, and I'm not prepared to give them up entirely for a very small increase of risk. One meal in 21 seems like a low intake to me.

In the same way, I live in London, despite the air quality breaching EU safe limits every year, for years on end. I don't like it, try and avoid car travel/diesel as much as possible, and lobby for changes in the law to bring the air back to safe levels. But I have to weigh up the risk of the filthy air against everything else we get in London, including my ability to earn a decent living.

Life isn't simple, there is risk in nearly everything, and we have to have some pleasures.

Actual Parma ham is free of “modern” (actually used for centuries) nasties but expensive. Once the risk was known they reverted to an older recipe. Maybe an occasional treat?

There was a guy on chris Evans show last week saying the amount of land given over to legumes etc now is staggering and reducing grass

Well obviously if its on Chris Evans it must be true but did he cite any actual data?

Large amounts legumes are being grown both in forest land and grasslands. Most of its soya which is grown to feed to livestock for the meat industry.

I think people eat too much meat anyway - once a day, even twice sometimes (or even three of you have a cooked breakfast). Not that long ago it was a treat to have a roast.

The planting of sod isn’t good for the environment but this mass produced soy is generally used for cattle feed, it’s not soy for people.

Another medic here; just wanted to add my voice to the chorus saying although the risk is proven; it’s is relatively speaking very small and obesity is by far the bigger risk to bowel ca (and an obesogenic diet will usually contain a lot of nitrates).

Also that yes; red meat is the easiest way to get good amounts of iron and B12 into children...pound for pound there’s much more than in leafy veg where it’s often difficult to get the volume into kids for optimum levels.

I mean I’d would try and avoid it if you can and if they will eat something else such as cheese or tuna or egg...

Children don't even need meat, never mind red meat twice a week . I don't believe a dietician said that to you, particular as plant based diets are being recommended.

You'd want to limit tuna to once a week, too, because of the mercury.

I agree that red meat is useful for getting iron into children, as the amount of alternative sources you need to eat to meet the requirements is usually unrealistic, especially for smaller children.

I think it's a kinder for the planet and healthier to give your children no meat or very little meat. There are plenty of good vegan/vegetarian sources of protein.