To give my children ham sandwiches every week?

[Popskipiekin]

My dad, who has had bowel cancer, is very up on what food is bad for you. He sent me this link which says - broadly - that ham, bacon and other processed meats are as bad as cigarettes and asbestos health-wise...

www.heraldscotland.com/news/17649774.herald-on-sunday-campaign-time-to-dump-nitro-meat-from-schools-and-hospitals/

DC have ham in some form every week. Sometimes twice. Is this very terrible? I thought ham wasn’t quite in the same category as bacon (which I do know we should be avoiding).

The thing that most of the headlines miss is that it increases the relative risk, so to say increases cancer by 19% means it actually increases the overall calculated risk for the population by about 0.01%. Cancer research explain it well here scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2015/10/26/processed-meat-and-cancer-what-you-need-to-know/
Obviously that's still an increase in risk, there's no denying it, but science writing in the British press is notoriously crap so should be taken with a pinch of salt (though that's bad for you too) and further reading if it's something that interests you.

It hasn’t been disproved. Only recently there was another study saying the same.

This is one of the reasons I disregard much of the scaremongering re breast feeding. Nitrates from processed meat seem to be a far bigger ‘risk’. Yet the continued fuss over formula which has no ‘risk’ is obsessed over by some. Double standards and ridiculous.

I’ve switched to Quorn ham in sandwiches for the dc, cheese and tuna. Still have ham, chorizo, salami or bacon now and again in meals but try to avoid.

My children also have a grandparent with bowel cancer.

Interesting topic. What counts as “processed” meat?

If you aren’t vegetarian, it is generally recommended that you eat red meat a couple of times a week.
Noone is saying you have to, but it as part of a healthy balanced diet. And I’ll repeat this is for a non vegetarian.

It's the nitrates but the link was made using mice studies so whilst I suspect it's not the best thing, I wouldn't get overly concerned, just limit nitrate containing foods to 2-3 times a week eg bacon on a weekday and game once a week. There's far more factors to consider eg plenty of vegetables and fibre! So many things are carcinogenic in lab conditions eg toast, roast potatoes, things fried in vegetable oil even but it's in lab conditions not real life, eat healthily, exercise and try not to worry about things you cannot control, the main risk factor for cancer is living! Your cells divide, every living creatures do, that's the process that goes haywire and mostly it's random mutations that cause it. I have bowel cancer in my family, but I eat bacon

If you aren’t vegetarian, it is generally recommended that you eat red meat a couple of times a week.
Noone is saying you have to, but it as part of a healthy balanced diet. And I’ll repeat this is for a non vegetarian.

Do you have a link to that research?

Does anyone know if beef mince count as processed meat?

It's the sodium nitrate. If just numbers E250 is Sodium nitrite.

We make sure everything we buy is E250 free. Often on pizzas so we make our own, and organic hams are often ok. We always check though.

Obesity is a far bigger risk for many types of cancer, including bowel cancer, than ham sandwiches.

I only allow processed meat on rare occasions. I wouldn't eat it myself on s regulate basis and certainly not make it s regular food to give to the DC.

Is there a reason why it has to be ham?

We eat nitrate free for this reason.

Thank you everyone for your contributions. Such an interesting topic! That WHO link is fantastic and a much calmer explanation and setting out of facts. Still requires a bit of reading between lines though and deciding what risk if any you want to take. PPs are right, I do need to do a lot more reading of the evidence myself but I’m grateful as ever for the contributions and debate on mumsnet - not many of my friends are thinking about these kind of things. Clearly they should be!

My dad was diagnosed late 60s, he had been doing all the bowel cancer screenings every 2 years and it was picked up on one of those. It was stage 3 and he had a lot cut out including the very end of the anal tract (prob using wrong terminology) so although he’s fully recovered it’s been fairly life impacting.

but then, cutting out/reducing the ham only makes sense if you generally eat well. if your diet is full of processed crap, taking the ham out probably won't make much difference.

The actual increase in risk is very small BBC

She says children must eat some red meat a couple of times a week for brain development and included bacon in that

Bollocks and more bollocks

If you aren’t vegetarian, it is generally recommended that you eat red meat a couple of times a week.
Noone is saying you have to, but it as part of a healthy balanced diet. And I’ll repeat this is for a non vegetarian.

Seriously, where on earth are you getting this rubbish from?

I understand it is the nitrates in processed meat that is a big part of problem. AND you can buy nitrate free ham and bacon.

The children presumably have 3 meals a day - so what difference is it going to make if ONE or TWO of those TWENTY-ONE meals in a week contains a bit of ham? None! Carry on as you are and let your children enjoy their ham sandwiches.

Minced meat is not processed, it's just chopped up fresh beef

but then, cutting out/reducing the ham only makes sense if you generally eat well. if your diet is full of processed crap, taking the ham out probably won't make much difference.

Very true. We generally don't eat processed food for this very reason.

Also your dad clearly doesn't understand that children who are 100% deprived of something might want to binge or eat loads of it when they are older and can decide what to eat for themselves. Like children who were banned from sweet treats as children and who feel compelled to eat an entire packet of biscuits as adults.

A bit of ham once or twice a week is teaching your children a healthy lesson - everything in moderation.

Also we were in with dietitician for DD. She says children must eat some red meat a couple of times a week for brain development and included bacon in that

Was she properly qualified dietician with NHS/Clinical experience or a "nutritionist"? Because I would seriously question the qualifications of anyone claiming to be a dietician who said this. Its arrant nonsense.

I would worry less about a ham sandwich once a week than the overall diet. If they get a mixture of veg, fruit, whole grains, pulses, nuts and seeds spread across the week then the odd ham sandwich is going to be small beer in terms of bowel health.

One of our friends is a colo-rectal surgeon. He won’t have ham or bacon in the house.

Minced meat is not processed, it's just chopped up fresh beef

If you get a lump of meat and ask them to mince it sure. Ready made mince often isn't 100% beef though. Read the labels next time you're in the supermarket.

You need the iron and minerals similar to those found in red meat, not necessarily the red meat itself. Pulses, whole grains, leafy green veg, tofu etc are all high in iron and minerals. Red meat is linked to bowel cancer - this is pretty indisputable.

Raw beef mince is just a lump of beef minced. Why would they be adding nitrates? Have never seen nitrates in packs of raw beef or lamb mince.