To be seething with DM?

[Hadalifeonce]

DM has some physical problems. Not as bad as she thinks, is constantly

helped by DB, even when she doesn't actually needs it, just a bit of extra time. DB tends to panic if things go wrong a telephones DSis, for support. Recently DM has been over reaching for support, despite being shown how to do things safely, and has slipped to the floor; not falling, just sliding to the floor.
She has an alarm to get help, and has used it a couple of times recently, HCP come to the house and get her up. This has become an issue as DB is terrified she will end up in hospital, and has demanded she stay in bed.
DS is going into hospital soon, and will be unable to drive for 6 weeks. She and I discussed this (I live 150 miles away), and thought it might be an idea to get respite care for DM while DSis is actually in hospital, as DB won't be able to contact her.
We checked on a couple of care homes, one of them was really lovely, more like an hotel actually.
We both went to DM's to explain the situation, pointing out that as DSis would not be around, and I am too far to get there quickly, that she might like to consider a week away; we gave her all the details of the home, DB was totally on board with this, as he is extremely stressed by DM's demands. DM agrees that she will try it for a week.
An assessment was arranged, then DM flatly refused to go, no particular reason. The home suggested she might to pop in for a coffee to see the place for herself, and meet the staff. NO!
The DM had the temerity to ask DSis if she was going to cancel the hospital.
We are both seething with her attitude, and feel like saying to hell with her. But we both need to support DB
Sorry it's so long.

exactly. please make that call OP

Seriously: just to add to what others have said. You need to start from the point that your brother is a vulnerable adult who is being mistreated.

Whilst I appreciate that he would be better off out of the environment, he will not leave, as previously stated he hasn't visited me or my DSis for over 30 years. We cannot force either of them to leave the house, although he gets very stressed, he feels it is his 'job' to help DM. We keep telling him it's not his job; we have offered to help him get his own home, but he won't have it; he does have a sort of OCD thing going on, and any change really stresses him out.
A few years ago, I was staying there for a few days, and started to do some cleaning, he completely freaked out because it was his job, and he attacked me, the police got involved, then social services; but he didn't want to leave.

I have spoken to DM today and told her the way she treats him is totally unacceptable, and she should seriously think about her behaviour and the demands she puts upon him. She just came out with the same old lies she usually does; DH thinks she's so convinced by her own lies she can't even see the truth.

I have decided to write to a friend of my father's who occasionally pops in to see DM, until now he has believed her lies about how she does virtually everything for herself, 'as she like to be independent'; I am going to tell him the truth and ask him to speak to DB to tell him not to do things the carer can do, and things DM can do but prefers not to. DB is a bit of a dinosaur, and won't take my or DSis word for some things as we are women, but might be open to another man telling him.
Apologies, another long post. But if he won't leave, and doesn't have to capacity to do what's needed, we are having to work behind the scenes to try to achieve a good result.

Bless you I can see it’s a really tough situation. But I think you are trying to make two people change who cannot. So it won’t happen, and you mustn’t be disappointed when it doesn’t.

I do think perhaps you should get social services to do a proper evaluation of your brother’s situation so you can be confident that he is happy and not being abused. You have said he doesn’t want to leave but it sounds like he may not be capable of making such decisions on his own behalf.

But that’s for the long term. Good luck sorting out things so your Ds can have her op and I hope it goes well.

Have you kept any records of what you've observed on visits, what your mum has said, etc? Maybe that would help behind the scenes, if you were to talk to the Vulnerable Adult team, and also the carers' coordinator, your mum's SW etc.

No, we haven't kept any records, other than our memories. As much as we would like to get SS involvement, all that would happen is they would want DB to leave, and he would have to be dragged kicking and screaming, which would be horrible for him, and be like a punishment.

I have written to DF's friend hoping to enlist his help in talking to DB about not doing DM's intimate care, when there is a carer to help her. Also for him to speak to DM about what she should do for herself, to help herself.
If he can make DB, change his behaviour then DM will have to do more for herself and become more mobile.
They will both have a better quality of life, hopefully.

I have now reported my own mother for emotional abuse of my brother!
Social services called to make an appointment, I asked them to wait until I could be there, they said they wanted to go straight away. I asked them to ensure they spoke separately to my brother, and to speak in simple terms and a little more loudly due to his deafness; and to remember my mother lies through her teeth.
I don't know exactly what was said, my mother told me that they said they would arrange for an evening carer for her, and told my brother not to do he intimate care, but she was insistent that she doesn't need one as she is happy doing it herself. When I pointed out that she doesn't do it herself DB does, again she lied, I even reminded her that I have been there when he gets her up and puts her to bed; she started all the crap about DB not wanting anyone to come into the house.
We now have adult services talking to the welfare team, they are going to assess further, hopefully when I can be there when they go back to the house.
What I would really like to happen is to show DB the kind of place he could be living in, this might make him think differently about the situation at home.

I am resurrecting this thread in the hope that someone with SS experience might be able to help.
I reported my mother as above; I received a 'phone call to say that social workers would be visiting to interview my brother, I asked them to wait a little while so that I could be there, but they insisted it had to be the next day.
Although they took my brother into a different room, it was within earshot of my mother. They asked him what he did for our mother and whether he wanted to leave home; he didn't tell the whole story about the level of care she expects, and stated that he didn't want to leave home.

I took him out for a drink on Saturday and asked him why he didn't tell the whole truth about the level of care he does, he told me that our mother had told him not to tell anyone, and that she also doesn't want him to leave home. I asked him if we were to find somewhere which would be similar to a place he could move into, would he have a look at it, and he said he would.

On Monday he told me said our mother had demanded to know what we had discussed, he told her, she apparently got cross with him and told him she doesn't want him to leave. She denied this to me and said it was up to him (she has form for lying).

I contacted SS today about this situation, and they repeated what he told them, I didn't want to accuse them of anything, but pointed out that effectively they interviewed an abused person within vicinity of their abuser, and asked if they would be able to re interview him, with an appropriate adult (me or my sister) and outwith the home.

She didn't seem to be very receptive to that idea.

Just wondering if anyone has had any experience of something like this?

I’m sorry op, I have no experience but the situation sounds awful and I agree it seems like you have been let down by ss in the way they have dealt with your db. I hope you can get him to look at a place he could move to and persuade him to move out. And I hope someone will be along soon with some good advice for you.

Thank you Whynot. I would have thought it obvious you don't interview someone near to their abuser, makes no sense.

Tell you mother it’s either she goes - or no one is going to be free to look after her. Your brother sounds like an amazing man OP. All his handicap and yet he is filial even though she treats him like shit. He deserves a rest.

D SiS and I are absolutely fuming, she had a medical problem today, DB asked for help from a neighbour, who pushed her emergency button. paramedics arrived, thinking she may have had a TIA took her to hospital, she hadn't she was discharged and told DB if he ever presses the button again she will kill him!

And he still made her a cup of tea and asking her if there is anything she needs. He is far too kind to her.

Social services need to be involved your brother should not be doing intimate care when there is a perfectly good carerto do that you need a professional to put their foot down with your mum

That's part of the latest problem, SS are involved, they interviewed him in the next room to my mother, so she could hear everything he said, and had warned him not to say anything. they took everything he said at face value.
Which is why I want them to interview him again, nowhere near the house and with either me or my sister present.

Do you have an LPA for your DB?
He needs looking after too.

You do need to be tough with your mum, could dB stay with you for the week and force the issue?

I’ve got nothing useful to add, beyond suggesting that you might like to look at the caring for elderly parents thread under Elderly Parents. There are some very wise and kind women there, with all kinds of expertise to share.

dB won't come here, I am nearly 3 hours away, he needs to be close to his hobby.
I will have a look at the elderly relatives thread.
Just find the whole situation so exhausting, distance doesn't help.

It will a horrid time when DM dies, as (DB) will have to move ... DSis and I will have to deal with him being bereaved and kicked out of his home at the same time

I've only just seen your thread and am picking this up from your earlier posts, but it's surely the crux of just how unpleasant your "D"M's being. DB will suffer a double trauma by losing her and his home, and all she can think of is herself

I doubt there's an answer to be found while they're still living in the same house, and I believe you're doing the right thing in asking SS to interview DB away from your DM ... but have you approached Age Concern for advice over this, or even a mental health organisation on your DB's behalf? None of it's likely to be unknown territory to any of them, and IME they're often very good at guiding you through it and approaching the right people

Worth a try perhaps?

I will talk to age concern to see if they have anything to offer. Unfortunately, because DB has special needs it's not straightforward. I am still hoping SS will come up with some accommodation for him to look at. He can't imagine living anywhere else, and SS can't seem to grasp that. After all, who would be happy to be told that they are moving and be given no information?

Social services should invoke the vulnerable adults procedures....

You and your sister also need to investigate becoming an attorney for your brother if he has thr level of LD that he appears to have. So you can make decisions i his best interests. It all needs to be around his best interests. 8 would suspect given the powerful controlling relationship he probably won't have capacity to make this decision. (in that he's emotionally abused and his LD means that hes unable to take thr right evidence into account wheb assessing his options. All he's thinking is my mum has told me to do x... He's not able to conceptualise what an alternative, better lifestyle will look like

who would be happy to be told that they are moving and be given no information?

Absolutely ... but IME (having a disabled lad of my own) these kind of moves work best where support and encouragement's coming from all directions. Unfortunately, your DM's abuse is cancelling out what you're doing to help DB, which is why I agree with keeping the focus on him rather than SS treating him as some kind of spin-off of his mother

And I hate to say it, but remembering he's not actually planning to move yet, I suspect you haven't seen half of what she'll come out with when and if he does

Has your brother had a capacity assessment? If he has capacity there may be little you or professionals can do at this time. If he doesn't have capacity some best interest decision might be able to be made for him. I understand that removing him from the home would be awful for him but in reality he is getting nothing from is current situation.It might also be better for him in the long run to bite the bullet now rather than waiting for the inevitable decline/death of your mother
best of luck the situation sounds very stressful. I hope DSIS has recovered from her hospital stay x

Thank you to everyone who is offering advice and support. In a way, it would be easier if he had less capacity.
Our priority is trying to convince him to agree to look at somewhere else to live. If we can remove him, we will then get DM the professional support she needs but refuses.