To hate Snape?

[DannyWallace]

Rereading Harry Potter. I absolutely LOVE the books and have reread them a million times (seriously!)

But, I just don't get the fascination with him.

He was literally obsessed with Lily. He bullied children (especially Neville and when Hermiones teeth grew!). Yes he put himself in danger to save the wizards etc, but I don't think being a hero stops you being a complete arsehole!

People I know have the word "always" tattooed on them! Why? We teach kids not to bully but then say it's ok when Snape acts like that?!!

Ok, I'm very aware it's not real, but I get passionate about it 🤣

He wanted Lily so much he arranged for her to be spared if she watched her husband and baby killed (and he thought she'd agree). Presumably he imagined himself swooping in and mopping up the pieces. That's not my definition of love.

Yes! #justiceforhagrid too. He made the odd mistake but he loved Harry unconditionally and, unlike some other characters, had no agenda for him. He and mcgonagall were way more deserving of being honoured in harry’s kids’ names than either snape or dumbledore.

I love him, he's the product of his bad experiences and yet he puts aside his hatred of the people who bullied him mercilessly to save the life of one of their children in the name of love. He's brave, complex, very often deeply unpleasant but utterly loyal and brave. He's a fantastic character.

All of this.

Plus all that time as a double agent will have been hugely stressful and lonely for him and would have taken its toil on his state of mind. He played a brave and selfless role.

@HBStowe I was thinking that about Mcgonagall too! She is amazing.

I LOVE the Umbridge character. Well, I hate her. I mean seriously hate her. But I just think JK Rowling creates the ultimate villain!
I mean Voldemort's evil. We all know that. Umbridge managed to welcomed into a SCHOOL!

@LaurieMarlow not denying he was brave or selfless. But I just think he was a complete arsehole while he did it!

Snape didn't have a great childhood, living with warring parents.
He was bullied at school.
His special friend, who he was falling for, ended up married to his childhood bully.
He overhead the prophecy and passed the information to Snape.
This led to Neville's parents being tortured.
This also led to James and Lily being killed.
It led to Harry being orphaned and being at the firing end of Voldemort's wrath.
Snape chose to live a double life - a spy for Dumbledore, keeping tabs on what Voldemort and his pals were up to. He had to show no favouritism to Harry, not let anyone, and especially Voldemort and the death eaters suspect anything, know what was happening - okay, he went way beyond that one!
He spent the rest of his life making amends, in various not-always obvious methods.
He did things that made everyone hate him - but things he had to do, such as killing Dumbledore.

'Always' means he maintained his love for his childhood friend, and spent his life protecting her precious child, even eventually giving his life for her/him.

He had a complex character, stemming from many issues in his earlier life.

He absolutely does not put aside his hatred of the people who bullied him. He tries to get Sirius kissed by a dementor even though he knows Sirius is innocent. He is more than happy for James and Harry - a literal baby - to be killed by Voldemort as long as lily is saved. He outs Remus as a werewolf even though Remus never bullied him.

And he was a bully too - one who used actual slurs. He called Lily’s friend a mudblood and she managed not to become wizard Goebbels.

He only protected Harry to assuage his guilt over the fact that lily died as a direct result of snape telling Voldemort what the prophecy said.

Was FEWM when Harry didn’t name any of his kids after Hagrid #justiceforhagrid

mean Voldemort's evil. We all know that. Umbridge managed to welcomed into a SCHOOL!

I think in many ways Umbridge is more evil than Voldemort!

But I just think he was a complete arsehole while he did it!

I think you have to make allowances for the pressure he was/had been under and how his experiences shaped him. Yes he often lashed out, he was a very flawed person, but he had it tough.

He tries to get Sirius kissed by a dementor even though he knows Sirius is innocent.

I don’t think he did know at that point. At that moment he thought Sirius was responsible for betraying Lily.

Even when he knew Sirius was innocent, he tried to make him suffer the dementors kiss.

I don't think that he knew that Sirius was innocent - everyone, including Lupin until he saw Wormtail on the map, believed that Sirius was guilty. I always assumed that the reason Snape was so manic in that scene was because, as far as he was aware, he was about to capture the man who had betrayed Lily and got her killed.

He was still a git and an appalling teacher though.

I don't like him but find him interesting.

I think he's there to prove you can be both good and bad. You can do things to redeem yourself, but you really must feel remorse.

He also shows not every good guy is nice. He may have had good intentions, but he was quite mean. That's not uncommon in the real world either.

I think he blamed James for Lily's death as he couldn't bare to believe it was his fault. There's something human about him where other characters are quite two dimwnsional and predictable.

I know you're totally right in everything you say about Snape when you reread the books as I have many times BUT then I imagine him as Alan Rickman in my head, hear Alan Rickman's voice as I read his dialogue on the page and I sort of love him

Isn't the whole point of the last book about how we are all a mixture of darkness and light and it's the decisions we make and the people we surround ourselves with that decided which wins. Snape was a good person who was bullied as a child, surrounded by Voldemorts darkness when he went undercover, yet ultimately love and light won in the end for him, when he sacrifices himself for the good.

He was a nasty, child abusing twat.

Jo herself has said he was a prick, so 🤷🏼‍♂️

He’s by far the most interesting character but I agree that he’s so deeply unpleasant that his heroics don’t redeem him.

I actually guessed the Lily connection before I read TDH because I was trying to figure out why he was apparently on the same side as a load of people he hated - Harry, Hermione, Sirius, we even see him be horrible to Tonks.

Really, if his son was truly named after the bravest men he ever knew, Albus would be called Hagrid Dobby Potter.

I liked Snape in the books because I was kept guessing right until the end. I was never sure whether he was going to turn out good or bad by the end of the series. I think he’s a complete cockwomble though. Bullies children, selfish, creepily stalks Lily even when she’s not interested.

Still fuming over the names Harry have his children. Forget Snape and Sirius. Where are Hagrid and Molly?! Hagrid who, although had his flaws, introduced him to the wizarding world, provided years of friendship, always looked out for him? Molly, who described Harry as being as good as a son to her? Who cared for him every holiday she was allowed, made him a family Xmas jumper every year, even gave him her own deceased brothers heirloom watch on his 17th birthday?

Also if anyone is as Potter obsessed as I am, there’s a fab podcast called potterless. It’s about a 25 year old bloke reading it for the first time as an adult and reacting/ trying to guess what happens. Very funny

Thanks for the podcast rec, sounds awesome!

Also to all the people saying he was bullied as a defence for Snape’s awfulness...

Luna was bullied and is a wonderful friend, kind to Dobby when most other wizards aren’t, went with Harry to the ministry in book 5 and stood up against death eaters when kidnapped in book 7

Neville was bullied and lead the resistance from within hogwarts and destroyed a horcruz. He also looked hot in a cardigan

Draco’s parents bully him into making poor life choices but even he has a better redemption arc when he throws Harry his wand to fight Voldemort

DD had an obsession with asking me if I was a Snape apologist. TBF, I only knew the character from movies (where he is unkind but ultimately loyal).

I thought you meant the place

I feel if he had met me I would have cheered him up and he would have left all that death eater nonsense behind

Noooo! My two favourite characters are Sirius Black and Snape. Both had their lives dominated and destroyed by the power-mad Voldemort. They render these books are lot more complex than they're sometimes given credit for. Harry Potter himself gets on my wick sometimes with the constant victimhood.