To wonder why some companies/managers have such a problem with flexi working?

[MotherOfDragons90]

My team, and the department it sits within are super flexible. Working from home is encouraged, we use Skype a lot for meetings, core hours are 10-2 but people’s hours vary immensely depending on workload/personal life etc. I think this is great, as it means I can finish a project late into the evening without having to worry about getting OT approved, or leave early on a Friday if I’ve got a weekend away booked or something.

DHs company used to be similar but they’ve recently revoked pretty much all forms of flexi working. He now has set hours of 8-4, and even that he only got because he’s been there a long time, new starters must do 9-5. No working from home except in unusual circumstances.

I get that in certain industries it isn’t possible, but I’m talking office type environments. It’s made things very awkward for my DH and I because he commute together and in the past have tried to align our flexi working and wfh days to save travel costs (AND the planet!). Traffic is hell at 4pm too!

AIBU to think this is absolutely bonkers and not conducive to a positive working environment at all? Please could I ask what your jobs policies are towards flexi working and any good reasons for banning all together?

Because she’s been there longer than me. But rocket science, I can think of loads of reasons why unsuitable flexible working has been approved.

Not rocket science even

But that is not the fault of that employee, you need to take your concerns to those who’ve made what you consider to be poor business decisions.

It seems to me that a lot of this could be avoided by simply saying that Friday can’t be taking as a WOH day by anyone.

@passthecherrycoke If you work somewhere that genuinely requires full coverage during business hours, then I guess it is what it is. But there are a lot of roles that aren't like that, that are still resistant to flexible working. I haven't heard any other good reasons - only "some people take the piss" which is absolutely a management issue.

Incidentally why do you see TOIL as a public sector thing? It doesn't always have to be as formal as TOIL either, just a "you might have to work OT during busy periods, so you can chill out a little when it's quiet (within reason)". Again not saying that has to apply to your company if it really wouldn't work.

It would be unfair to change her contract now, but it won’t happen again.

It’s reasonable to expect highly paid people to put in extra hours as needed without expecting them back as time off.

A casual occasional arrangement is fine and nothing to write home about, a formal arrangement is TOIL.

I’ll be sure to take it to her previous crap manager who was sacked for non delivery then @goodwinter. I’ll let you know how it goes 🤣

Sorry @passthecherrycoke I honestly don't get what your last comment means. The "bad management" I'm referring to is when people say that flex working isn't viable because some people take the piss. I'm saying that's not a good reason, and the only good reason I've heard is in situations such as yours where constant coverage is actually required. In most places, things can wait a few hours.

It’s reasonable to expect highly paid people to put in extra hours as needed without expecting them back as time off.

Maybe, but flexibility isn't just about highly paid people! I'm certainly not that well-paid but my managers encourage us to, for example, leave a couple of hours early before a BH weekend because they know that it's non-stop during busy periods. It's very appreciated and it means I'm a more loyal employee for it.

Sorry good winter that was a mistake, I was replying to the poster above who said I should take my concerns to those who made poor business decisions

So take them to the person above her? I mean, either do something about the situation or stop whining about it and using that person’s bad decisions (clearly not the only bad decisions she made) as a reason for flexible working being a bad idea. It isn’t, if it’s properly implemented.

What are you on about? I’m her manager, I don’t need to consult anyone else. I’m not whining, I am responding to 3 pages of criticism from posters who have no idea what they’re talking about, including yourself

We have a happy medium : reasonably flexible hours, working from home is ok, but no set days. No compressed hours.
No compressed hours as long days mean longer time spend at work, but not actually more work getting done. From experience, people who work 4 days part time get the same amount of work done as people who work 4 days compressed hours, they just get paid less. And that is not fair.
Set days working from home are hard to manage with teams, as there is never a day where everybody is in the office, and that is necessary in my job. People,work at home if something needs to be done at home, or because a day is meeting free, but don’t have the right to stay at home on specific days ( also stops the “work from home while having the kids” scenario - working from home when kids are sick is fine though)

A lot of this seems to be examples of where everyone is ‘sharing’ the same work, so if someone is off/gone home early/in late, everyone has to ‘cover’ for them and it’s unfair. There are a lot of jobs where you don’t work with others constantly or respond to others on an hourly basis. If I’m not around, things have to wait really as I’m in quite a specialist role and most of my team wouldn’t be able to answer the questions fully. It’s not a life or death situation, sometimes people just have to wait - if I was in meetings all day I wouldn’t be able to respond instantly so what’s the difference? I’m happy to check my emails of an evening to see if any urgent questions have been asked but I invariably things could wait until the next day and most of my work is quite long term projects without hourly deadlines!

I do 10-6. Working from home is only allowed if I'm ill :(

I work for a large multinational, and there are all sorts of options. Some departments do 24/7 cover so have shift patterns. Ours does on-call and out-of-hours work, and you can usually claim TOIL or overtime for that (TOIL by default, but OT can be agreed in advance.) And then there are roles like reception which have to have physical cover from 7am-7pm, so I assume they have a rota to cover earlies and lates.

Added to that, a team may be spread across different locations and countries, and I don't care if someone in Amsterdam is in the office or WFH, as long as I can get hold of them by phone, instant messenger or email. There are times we have to do physical on-site work, but that's usually arranged in advance, so you know Pete is in the datacentre on Thursday, so unavailable for other work.

We have people who do part-time, one or two non-working days in a week. We have people who have formally changed their contracts to e.g. finish at 3pm every day, so they can do the afternoon school run, or to have their home office as their main work location. Some people do compressed hours, so 4 x 10 hour days rather than 5 x 8hour days. Some finish early to do the school run, but then do another couple of hours WFH in the evening - this can work quite well, if you do a lot of work with the US, especially west coast. Others will do a couple of hours calls with AsiaPac before doing the morning school run. Or they will take a long lunch for a hard gym session. And then the rest of us tend to come in at any time between about 07:30 and 10:00, and then leave earlier or later accordingly.

Not all patterns work for all departments or all people but geography means we have people working all over the place anyway, and a lot of meetings are by conference call or videoconferencing. There aren't enough desks for everyone to be in the office at the same time, which is demonstrated every time there are senior execs over from the US. Those of us who are in the office at least three days a week have our own desks; for everyone else, there's hotdesks.

We've previously had communicationsome from HR saying they'd rather people staggered start and end times, as it reduces traffic congestion. If I have to be in for a 9am meeting, my commute is likely to take an hour. Aiming for 10am, it's usually 25 minutes. I don't see the point of sitting in traffic if I don't have to. HR have also said, "work is an activity, not a location."

Of course some people take the piss, but then some people take the piss in the office. I usually work in the office - I like seeing people face-to-face, and too much WFH gets isolating and isn't good for my mental health (I live alone, so can literally not see anyone else.) But I really appreciate the flexibility of being able to fit in medical appointments or take the car in for a service or be in for a delivery, and I have also chosen to WFH when I've had a piece of work I really need to focus on without interruption. It really can work when it's well-managed.