To wonder why some companies/managers have such a problem with flexi working?

[MotherOfDragons90]

My team, and the department it sits within are super flexible. Working from home is encouraged, we use Skype a lot for meetings, core hours are 10-2 but people’s hours vary immensely depending on workload/personal life etc. I think this is great, as it means I can finish a project late into the evening without having to worry about getting OT approved, or leave early on a Friday if I’ve got a weekend away booked or something.

DHs company used to be similar but they’ve recently revoked pretty much all forms of flexi working. He now has set hours of 8-4, and even that he only got because he’s been there a long time, new starters must do 9-5. No working from home except in unusual circumstances.

I get that in certain industries it isn’t possible, but I’m talking office type environments. It’s made things very awkward for my DH and I because he commute together and in the past have tried to align our flexi working and wfh days to save travel costs (AND the planet!). Traffic is hell at 4pm too!

AIBU to think this is absolutely bonkers and not conducive to a positive working environment at all? Please could I ask what your jobs policies are towards flexi working and any good reasons for banning all together?

I absolutely loathe presenteeism. It’s a waste of time and resources for so many businesses. Usually if people aren’t working or productive when WFH, it’s because they’re unhappy in their job in some way or another. They are most likely not working so much when in the office either.

OR, NEWSFLASH: they may not be doing much work at home because they’re actually very efficient at their job. In the past couple of years I’ve realized how quickly I can do certain tasks whether naturally or when under a lot of stress. I would estimate 3 hours in the project management system sometimes but get it done in 1 hour, etc. That would balance out eventually because some tasks would take me longer than I anticipated. The point is, the work gets done.

@DiscontinuedModelHusband

the head office did a study of email traffic, and found that on friday afternoons, email traffic dropped by 60%. which would indicate it's not just a handful taking the piss.

This is madness! Traffic would naturally slow down on a Friday anyway if you’ve wrapped up a lot of conversations by end of day Thursday or early Friday morning. Also, people may have just switched to actually leisurely talking to their colleagues or clients in person/via phone on Friday afternoon to wrap up details instead of bandying about emails. People may also be planning their work for the next week and don’t particularly need to send emails to do that task. Did the head office ever ask their employees WHY email traffic slowed down? They may be surprised.

@Passthecherrycoke you seem rather bitter about your employee and like a bad manager to boot.

@Passthecherrycoke

So if the person was supposed to be at work but wasn’t in the office, the bid team would presumably phone the team or physically come and find someone to help. In which case I, as manager would step in and assist.

I think what you’re missing here and that other posters are trying to tell you is this: that employee is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE AT WORK at 2pm on a Friday. She has already done her hours for the week. It is your job as manager to deal with the 4 hours’ difference and any tasks that crop up when she is done with her work and shifts. She has completed all her work that fell within her working hours, the rest is up to you to deal with.

AnAC12UCOinanOCG Not when the auction is early the next week and the bid needs to go through a number of approval levels before sign off. Don’t tell me what does and doesn’t happen in my industry.

You keep saying silly things to justify why you don't like flexible working. I'm very happy to tell you that the bid does not need to be acted on in three hours.

This thread offers some proof that certain managers are against flexible working because it exposes how bad they are at managing.

2pm on a Friday is working hours

Yes but the employee doesn't work those hours. And even if she did, she could be in a meeting with another client. Would you pull her out of a meeting with one client to prepare a bid for another client which probably wasn't that urgent to begin with? Which client is more important?

This thread offers some proof that certain managers are against flexible working because it exposes how bad they are at managing

Agreed.

A good manager measures output/quality of that output, not time on bottom at desk.

i was in a relationship that broke down this year. Ex is now with a Further Education lecturer who is allowed to work from home, he still lives with his wife. She spends the two work from home days shagging him or going out shopping or to the pub. I think this sort of thing is the reason it is being clamped down on.

My workplace got rid of most flexi options a couple of years ago. Way too many people were taking the piss, and the people picking up the pieces got their work/life balance absolutely shot to hell. When people were given the option to work from home I went from working 50-60 hours in a bad week to consistently working 80-90 hours, just dealing with all the work the piss takers decided not to do or decided to half ass. From the perspective of the low to mid level employees and the most senior figureheads flexi working was great, but everyone in between was getting absolutely hammered.

For example people would regularly tell me they were going to complete their work that night. Ok, but then when they didn’t for whatever reason I’d have to pull an all nighter to get their work done. If someone leaves me hanging during regular working hours it’s not so bad, I still have a ton of options then, but when it happens at 12am it’s all on me and I don’t get to just shrug it off, not if I still want a career in the morning.

The worst thing though was all the shoddy work I’d get. People get a lot braver about handing you shit when they don’t actually have to face you that day.

And yes, I’d have dearly loved to have just fired all the piss-takers, but it’s not actually that easy to get rid of people, and while you spend months or even years trying to tick every box that needs ticking they make your life a living hell. In a regular office environment they’re still a pain in the arse, but you can stay on top of them and see every problem they cause coming. Leave them to their own devices and you can’t even begin to guess what fresh hell they’ll bring upon you each day.

For example people would regularly tell me they were going to complete their work that night. Ok, but then when they didn’t for whatever reason I’d have to pull an all nighter to get their work done. If someone leaves me hanging during regular working hours it’s not so bad, I still have a ton of options then, but when it happens at 12am

I don’t really get this. Why wouldn’t you have the same penalties for missing deadlines when WFH as working in the office? If you don’t deliver when you say you will, that’s an issue regardless.

I agree LaurieMarlow there needs to be the same standard surely?

Also agree with @LaurieMarlow. Why is the solution to penalise everyone and reduce morale, rather than deal with shitty employees?! Sorry but it really does sound like bad management.

My manager is pretty flexible despite the FT shifts being not flexible
So if you applied for PT and wanted school hours only and then to increase in holidays, fine. I asked today can I finish an hour early this week and work it back, yep fine as he needs me on Friday
We have out of office which directs urgent emails to our manager who will then dish them out to other staff as needed
The only thing we can't do is work from home as it's a contact centre

This thread offers some proof that certain managers are against flexible working because it exposes how bad they are at managing.

Yep, agree with this.

Good managers can cover flexible working, and they don't go into a fluster because someone doesn't work 9-5 everyday.

So for all those posters telling me my employee should be allowed flexi hours to include one afternoon off a week can you explain how her work is covered without me (her manager) doing an afternoons Work for her a week? You think that’s good management do you, stepping in and doing your employees job for them on a regular basis? What tosh. It’s obvious there are many jobs which don’t lend themselves to flexible working.

I think this is where people misunderstand flexi in this context @passthecherrycoke.

I work completely flexibly but certainly don’t have every Friday afternoon off, or expect any regular arrangement like that. Compressed hours are available but separate approvals are required for that. It just means that during busy periods people work longer hours and then take them back off again when it’s convenient for the business, and the employee too obviously.

For example, my job is extremely busy at month end and year end (both calendar and financial). I often work in excess of an hour or two a day extra during those periods.

If I’ve built up enough hours I will then request a day off when things calm down a bit. This still has to be approved by my manager though, I couldn’t just swan off at 1pm on a Friday withou checking with anyone.

So there would be nothing stopping her requesting every Friday afternoon of but if you don’t have the capacity to cover her work then you wouldn’t have to agree it.

You’re describing TOIL, which along with core hours, seems to me to be quite public sector focused. My particular employee is paid over £75k a year, she doesn’t get time back for working over time. She does however, have contracted compressed hours, and has every Friday off. Which is consistently causing problems.

So no, I am not misunderstanding flexible working. Flexible working takes many different forms.

It does take many forms. Which is why it makes no sense to ban it altogether when one of those forms may well benefit both the employee and the business better than total rigidity.

Not sure anyone has banned all flexible working. However, expecting all types work for all roles in all companies just because you think it should do is naive and incorrect.

My Company my DH works for has, hence my post

And you asked for good reasons why oh wouldn’t be allowed and been given loads

@IAmTheChosenOne maybe don't hire people that aren't trust worthy?

Flexible working seems like it takes more effort but actually should support good leadership/ management style (being clear on what your staff are working on, how each is contributing to the business strategy, knowing what the outcomes should be, knowing what good looks like etc)

Presenteeism is easy and supports lazy management because you just need to see them at a desk between certain times.

Where hiring new people you'd just hire people you trust to work flexibly. When applying to an existing team you may have to put effort in again and performance manage those who do 'take the piss' but if everyone is clear on what they should be doing and producing that shouldn't be hard.

In all the places I've worked that so it well they have really good leaders. In the places that are adverse to it they have a weak leadership team and management.

@Passthecherrycoke

Who approved her compressed hours contract? Was it you or a higher up?

How often does the Friday afternoon urgent bid scenario actually crop up?

@passthecherrycoke why were her contracted hours approved if they cause so much bother, then?

Nobody is saying all flexi/compressed hours requests have to be approved, but hers clearly were - so, somebody somewhere clearly doesn't see it to be a problem that she works longer days Mon-Thurs as a trade off for going at 1pm on a Friday.

Her going at 1pm isn't what's causing the problem - poor management and/or someone approving a contract when they shouldn't have is the problem. I often come in early and finish early - not a problem because my job is covered and my absence isn't causing anyone any extra work.

If her hours aren't working then that's the problem - but it's not her fault. If she works her contract - she's just doing her job, isn't she?

I do think flexi working should be more widely available but there's always one or two cheeky fuckers who ruin it for everyone else.
I did get asked by an employee if they could do flexi working and when I said no one does flexi working due to our environment she said I was being ridiculous and discriminatory because she's a woman I'm also a woman as is 90% of our workforce......we're a bloody care home ffs. "Sorry Fred you can't get up til midday cos no one could be arsed to work in the morning".